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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Labour against transphobia group - thread 2

917 replies

QuentinSummers · 24/01/2018 21:14

Follow on from
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3144285-Labour-Against-Transphobia-Facebook-group?msgid=75082467#75082467

OP posts:
Thread gallery
36
Mner · 01/02/2018 07:46

We've emailed and tweeted Labour (who are effectively sticking in their ears pretending they can't hear us). I've contacted my local mp who is Tory, female and I don't think would support self id.

Is there a way of contacting key people in the Green Party, WEP, and lib dems to see if we can raise awareness of this?

athingthateveryoneneeds · 01/02/2018 08:12

Oh, the Green Party, WEP and Lib Dems all know about Self ID. They're supporting it as well.

BeyondWitchbitchterf · 01/02/2018 08:19

The Tories winning in 2020 is not a guarantee of my being homeless and without an nhs - yes there is a risk but its a tiny one.

Weighed up against the risk of the female sex no longer existing, I can see which has more immediate personal risk to me. It's crap that I have to make this decision, but I'm not the one putting me in this position.

I second just, you do sound like you are feeling very low :(

MissMoneyPlant · 01/02/2018 09:55

Im not ok and would really like someone to help me.
But there isnt anyone because it got cut already... theyve written me off to kill myself, its what they wnat

Original poster
QuentinSummers · 01/02/2018 09:57

What help do you want miss? There are charities out there that will listen. The Samaritans or Mind?
Is there something specific you want to discuss?

OP posts:
MissMoneyPlant · 01/02/2018 10:01

i cant understand how you can be on beenfits and not terrified. Havent you already failed assessments? if youre under 35 you have to live in a shared house if you dont get PIP - do you know how horrific and terrifying that is? The kind of men you have to share with? theyve taken almost everythig already, im so scared. No one cares, im so alone. its all i got. im so frightened

Original poster
QuentinSummers · 01/02/2018 10:10

Ok.
Firstly is there anything at all that will relax you? Bath, book, chocolate, getting out and about? Stop reading about politics for a bit. There's nothing more you can do at the moment and it is scary to read. So ignore it for a bit.

Secondly, can you check in with your GP to discuss your MH and get some help? If you are feeling suicidal, it is their job to help. Ask for an urgent appointment.

Thirdly, who can you meet up with irl? Someone will care, someone will want to help, you just need to reach out. Even if it's just to have a chat with someone about something totally different.

And call MIND.
There is help out there and you are not worthless Flowers

OP posts:
MiMi78 · 01/02/2018 10:35

MissMoney, have you got a support need, like DV, mental health, drug use?
If so, there's usually funding from LA aimed at supporting people.
Call up your local council and they can make a referral to one of the agencies funded by this grant and you can get a support worker.
Charities and third sector agencies can help Flowers

MissMoneyPlant · 01/02/2018 11:00

I'm sorry, got bit overwhelmed there.

Things is, Quentin, politics is life. It's not abstract, I'm living the result of government decisions. I'm ok financially atm but the fear knowing it is so temporary... The therapy I needed was offered years ago, then whisked away as services were cut. I'm completely written off by the system in that regard. And politics reflects the priorities people have irl. The people overlooked in political decisions are the people overlooked irl by those around them. People I once trusted, but could not turn to now, and yet they care so much about (and believe) men who want to be women... Hmm

Actually it's kind of tempting, as an experiment, to suggest I might be trans to see if they put their money (or care/concern) where their mouth is - would I be treated differently on an interperosnal level? Or is it all virtue-signalling? (I would never really do this.)

I'm sorry, I dont want to derail the thread so forget I posted except for the last relevent point about whether the politics actually affects how people interact... that does intrigue me.

(Re. voting, I live in a safe seat so would consider spoiling ballot with appropriate feminist slogan... it's just that unless the Tories actually actively oppose self-ID, I really don't want them in power.)

MissMoneyPlant · 01/02/2018 11:03

ps. People who should know how I feel, do, that is covered. I'm just a messed up traumatised woman. Boy, has feminism helped join some dots!
Also, I've got this far out of sheer bloody-mindedness, so...

LangCleg · 01/02/2018 11:38

MissMoneyPlant Flowers

Mner · 01/02/2018 12:02

MissMoneyPlant I am not surprised you feel overwhelmed - what a difficult time you are going through and it is awful that our country has got us into a position where we may all have to make a choice between financial and government aide for the poorest and most vulnerable in our society vs our ability to self-define as a biological group and the monumental impact that will have on our futures and for generations to come. Flowers

BeyondWitchbitchterf · 01/02/2018 12:13

I understand The Fear miss, I understand that its constant and doesn't go away if you just try not to think about it. That's why I feel we have to address this with labour NOW, so it can all be sorted and 2020 can focus on things like disability and the NHS without this crap getting in the way. Then while I have at least two years of living in a Tory government, fearing every brown envelope that comes through my door, at least I won't have to worry so much about having some random bloke in the bed next to me when I'm in hospital.

Fwiw I'm also in a (lab) safe seat so my vote doesn't mean much anyway - I can afford to throw it away.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 01/02/2018 12:15

miss

Sorry ive got not useful advice Thanks

Terflurker · 01/02/2018 13:59

Hi all. Just joined mumsnet after reading these threads (after clicking a link from Rad Fem Collective on facebook) and becoming outraged and scared. But I'm very grateful I did - a week ago I saw no problem with trans and had no idea about self-id, now I am talking to all my friends about it and will be commenting on the scottish govt consultation (I'm in scotland). So carry on the good work ladies!
One thing I wanted to note - how is being transgender any different to what Rachel Dolezal did / identified as? Why did society outright condemn her but not see the similarities with transgender? I believe everyone should be treated with compassion (I'm a 'bleeding-heart liberal' green party voter) but in both cases it seems to be as though there is a pathology that needs healing. In both cases the individual self-identifies against their biology. If I'm missing something massive here, can anyone explain?/

Battleax · 01/02/2018 14:03

No, can't explain it Terf. It baffles me too. The parallel is so obvious to me.

JessicaEccles · 01/02/2018 14:11

One thing I wanted to note - how is being transgender any different to what Rachel Dolezal did / identified as? Why did society outright condemn her but not see the similarities with transgender?

That's was also my #peaktrans moment. It's a good question to pose to people.

Justabunchofcunts · 01/02/2018 14:24

More flowers for you miss money Flowers

OnTheList · 01/02/2018 15:14

The exact same arguments of how Dolezal was wrong..can be applied to 'transgender'. Exactly the same. But people refuse to acknowledge this and will attempt to bend language and confuse people and if that fails, they will scream bigot and run away.

BarrackerBarmer · 01/02/2018 15:32

If anything, transgender is a more obviously wrong-headed argument than Dolezal.
Sex really is binary, and not a spectrum or sliding scale. Substantively everyone is unambiguously male and female.

Race is much more of a spectrum, we are all mixed race, and there is no obvious division. Mixed race siblings can be perceived as completely different from each other despite sharing parentage and background.

So, having said that, if we can fully grasp the offensiveness of a 'white' person approximating and appropriating 'blackness' for themself , we should really get men claiming to be women with perfect clarity.

People claiming they are offended by Dolezal but not by transgender are pure hypocrites.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 01/02/2018 16:56

Well that's drawn a very clear line.

I am not sure what I'll do for the upcoming local elections. It's clearly not a local election issue but I can't vote for a party who want to erase me and teach misinformation in our schools.

I have never voted for anyone else for anything. Sad

Justabunchofcunts · 01/02/2018 16:59

Certain I'm with you on that. And I will be asking about this, particularly how self-Id will play out in local schools, if I'm canvassed on the doorstep.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 01/02/2018 17:03

I was canvassed the other day. One guy was clearly v sympathetic but the rest of them said 'this isn't a local issue' and 'there aren't any TiMs standing for us' and I think probably thought I was a horrible transphobe.

I am v tribal in my allegiance to The Party. But I can't do this.

Ohforfoxsakereturns · 01/02/2018 18:48

Fucking hell. I’m at peaktrans.

It’s just astounding that so many people are missing the fucking point. It’s not fucking anti-trans, it’s pro-Women’s rights. It’s absolutely making my piss boil. Angry

AWS - trans women are welcome. Those who are trans women. Not any fucking chancer in a dress who wants to show women who is boss.

If I can’t challenge a bloke with a penis in the pool changing room next to my 10yo, she will stop swimming.

I’M NOT A FUCKING TERF I’M A PMEF - a PREDATORY MALE EXCLUSIONARY FEMINIST.

Fucks sake