Letter from Irish feminists to British "Terfs"

[SoupyNorman]

Link here. All sorts of issues bound up in this, but it got a lot of traction on Irish Twitter last night.

One point it does make is that the equivalent of Gender Id has been the case in Ireland for a couple of years, and yet the sky hasn't fallen in for women. Is that the case? Can any one living in Ireland confirm that? I sort of think you're not comparing like with like when it comes to the trans community in Ireland and that in the U.K., but I'd be interested to hear other thoughts.

I think they came back and clarified that transwomen WOULD be welcome to enter. .... "you're ALL lovely girls!"

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, as my old granny used to say.

I may have to go over and see that this year, as well as Mary from Dunloe.

maryfromdungloe.com/

Well, I have finally posted someone in reply to a (gay male) "friends" Facebooks post on Terfs. I am probably going to be seen as a full-on terf now. I hope I get some replies from people who liked the original post as I would love to draw their attention to some of the issues (which I seriously doubt they have thought through).

This is the first thing I have posted in public on the issue. I ended up posting a few messages so hopefully it doesn't look like a rant (they are well thought out messages, but not ideal to post a few, but they get too long to read otherwise).

Along with the insulting Terf post he posted this: www.irishcentral.com/news/irish-feminists-warn-away-british-terfs

I took issue with this sentence from the article "TERFs have decried what they view as the abolition of gender."

Just lol to that sentence, talk about not getting it.

On the one hand I feel I have enough controversy in my life, but this issue has me really annoyed at how ridiculous people are being in denying biology and even worse, the rape threats and the like towards women who are gender critical.

I used to think people here were being a bit mean towards transexuals, but then the more posts I read the more I saw they had a point, and of course I learned "old-fashioned" transexuals and transgender are not the same thing.

Sorry I meant to say there is a comment section under that article I linked to.

Ooh seems you have some new fans from across the water! Looks like they were silly teens going through silly phases they outgrew - unlike today’s so woke teens who don’t go through phases, who won’t change their views on anything.

It's more to do with having a go at 'Brits' than giving a fuck about transpeople.

It's ok to call yourself a feminist and call people 'slimy bitches' in her head but not believe men can't be women.

Yeah, she sounds perfectly rational

Yep #TERFsOut echoes Brits Out.

Why do they keep calling British women colonialists and imperialists though? They might dissgree - but strange to use those words.

It's the republican mindset. All Brits are imperialist. The Union Jack is the Butcher's Apron.

Why do they keep calling British women colonialists and imperialists though?

Because Ireland is a country that was colonised? It harks back to plantation times.

I don't agree with the tone of the letter or using colonialist in it, but I agree that as an Irish person I've seen a bit of an imperial attitude before from British people. It was especially noticeable when the Brexit talks couldn't progress due to not being acceptable to us and the GFA.

I do understand they’re usage, especially bring Scottish - but for folk who think they’re super tolerant and are fast to yell out bigot to others - seems they’re pretty bigoted and backwards themselves.

Why do they keep calling British women colonialists and imperialists though?

To me that read more like wholesale importation of US-style SJW 'intersectional feminism' - this language is par for the course in US feminism, where if you disagree with a feminist perspective - say, opposition to the sex industry - you denounce it as 'white feminism': racist, colonialist and imperialist. As Irishwomen they can't really go with the 'racist' accusation, but they can certainly weaponise 'colonialist' and 'imperialist'.

Sorry if that sounds a bit cynical. I'm not Irish but some of my family are and I've lived in both the North and the South, and I don't recall this type of language being used in feminist discourse there. I heard it from republicans, of course, but feminists typically had different concerns.

Yes, they've assumed our genders and our nationalities

It’s a bit strange to refer to women mostly born after the establishment of the Republic colonialists and imperialists. As a Canadian, I’m also not a fan of being called those names for the sins of white people who did things (murder & forced relocations & general bigotry) before my grandparents got here. I’d rather we all worked on problems in front of us than called names for historical wrongs modern people are not committing.

It’s a bit strange to refer to women mostly born after the establishment of the Republic colonialists and imperialists.

I completely agree with all of your post, but just to point out, as an Irish person I have seen a bit of a colonialist attitude from some British.

The EU border talks were a really good example of this.The comments in the media by people who thought Ireland should just follow Britain out of the EU, couldn't understand why we were being so 'difficult' etc. There was a real problem with understanding that we are an independent country and won't blindly follow the UK. Equally though you get Irish people who will just throw the imperialist accusations out.

I hate these old fights being brought up to put people down - you see it a lot with white guilt etc - but I do agree that there is an element of imperialism there. I like to think it's not present in anywhere near most British people.

Dragging this off topic now so apologies.

In fairness, including Dublin in a "UK tour" does betray a bit of a colonialist mindset.

It's an irrelevance

Ireland is an irrelevance? Well fuck you too.

Raven, people really can be thick! That amazes me that Brits wouldn’t grasp that Eire has gone its own way and can determine its own policies. That is colonialist thinking, you’re right. I have to explain to other Canadians that Ireland is not in Britain, that N Ireland is in the UK, but their eyes glaze over when I talk about parliament in Westminster and the Oireachtas.

Sorry for wandering off topic all.

I completely agree with all of your post, but just to point out, as an Irish person I have seen a bit of a colonialist attitude from some British.

The EU border talks were a really good example of this

This is a really good example of British colonial thinking but it is leaver thinking. And I'm going to go out on a limb and guess your majority of radfems voted remain - because they understand how important the EU has been for women's rights.
Using any current example of 'British politics' or 'British views' to make a point about the 'British' is always going to be inaccurate at the moment because we are split right down the middle in a sort of civil cold war since the Brexit vote.
So whilst, as an insult, it might work for a section of the British populace - it probably doesn't work for the people it was thrown at - which therefore makes the person doing the insulting look a wee bit reactionary - just firing off anti-British rhetoric for the hell of it.

I would also like to register my embarrassment that Dr. Nicola Monster says she is in her 30s and has used the phrase 'SO WOKE' without any apparent trace of irony. cringe - just cringe.