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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tavistock psychologist is worried about rush to label kids as trans

79 replies

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 21/01/2018 07:38

Dr Bernadette Wren told the Sunday Times she thinks it's all happening too fast. This is an accessible link.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-rushing-on-whisper-to-label-pupils-as-transgender-0d8zm53qs?shareToken=315f17227c1c052cb0287315f3d589a4

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 21/01/2018 19:40

I think one can operate in life without being cognisant of any gender identity. I wouldn’t appreciate someone challenging me on this.

I don't understand this. If you substitute 'gender identity' for 'faith in god' it reads as if we all have an innate faith in God but some of us just aren't cognisant of it? Which is just plain wrong.

Are you suggesting you think everyone within a sex class truly does possess a matching identity with common characteristics (that are unrelated to our bodies), but that some people are just....unaware?

So, for example, you and I are both biologically female but we share a common identity with each other and with every other female? And it's nothing to do with our bodies, nothing to do with our experiences, it's just...similar brains which are distinguishable from male brains?

What is gender identity?
What do people who believe it exists claim it is?
Well, not that there is ever an explanation of it that isn't circular, but certain definitions are ruled out:
It isn't recognition of ones bodily sex. (This would mean no one was transgender)
It isn't preferences or desires or convictions (eg I know myself to have this body but I wish I had that one)
It isn't individual identity. Individual identity would be valid. No, 'gender' is by definition a group or class of people sharing common characteristics.

It's the concept of a group identity.
But, unrelated to bodies or life experiences. Further, it's a concept that is claimed to coincide and correlate with a sex, but with rare exceptions.

It's just entirely false. Medics need to challenge this. People born with ovaries don't have an innate, cerebral identity they share which is independent of their bodies and experiences.

So yes, anyone who claims an identity AND ALSO CLAIMS that this identity is SHARED by an entire group of people of one biological sex, needs to be disabused of that idea.

This is the crux of it all.

Y believes Y = X.
This can only be true if X = Y also.

X doesn't = Y. So that's that.

You are obviously well informed MsBeaujangles, and I am not trying to be obtuse or rude.

I just want to push for a clear explanation of what people mean when they say gender identity.

Whatnextxx · 21/01/2018 21:27

I for one am thankful that the Times is putting this whole nonsense under the spotlight

birdbandit · 21/01/2018 21:44

Thank goodness for the comments, it really is heartening to see the majority see how abusive this current trend can be.

Stopmakingsense · 21/01/2018 21:45

I think she is highlighting the enormous pressure the clinic is under to be less cautious, and for clinical judgement to be overridden in favour of social justice.
This was her interview with the Guardian a little while ago
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/19/nhs-clinic-trans-rights-storm-gender-identity-specialist-centre-transgender?CMP=ShareiOSAppp_Other

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