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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Tavistock psychologist is worried about rush to label kids as trans

79 replies

EmpressOfTheSpartacusOceans · 21/01/2018 07:38

Dr Bernadette Wren told the Sunday Times she thinks it's all happening too fast. This is an accessible link.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/schools-rushing-on-whisper-to-label-pupils-as-transgender-0d8zm53qs?shareToken=315f17227c1c052cb0287315f3d589a4

OP posts:
FlaviaAlbia · 21/01/2018 10:58

I can't believe they don't follow up to adulthood Shock

I understand that some may not want to cooperate with enquires once they reach adulthood but how can the Tavistock possibly know the treatment strategies they do are the right ones if they don't follow up to see the long term results? Or what any possible side effects may be?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/01/2018 10:58

The comments are very interesting

I've just gone back and read them. Very heartening, and they all sound so reasonable and sane which will contrast nicely when the "transwomen are women" chanting starts.

I hope "SilverLady" is a MNer - I always notice her comments

Natsku · 21/01/2018 11:01

Good article, very brave of her to speak out. The comments are very encouraging too - the times might be a changing now!

MsGameandWatching · 21/01/2018 11:07

It's drifting back the other way isn't it? It really is. Maybe only gradually just now, but it is.

guardianfree · 21/01/2018 11:09

On one hand, the Times is read by the 'establishment' so commenting on there can reach people who have access to power.
On the other hand, there is such a dreadful torrent of 'anyone who is gender critical is a bigot" on social media, the Guardian etc that I am not convinced that the message is getting through. But I do think that highlighting the dangers to children is the way forward. As adults we can and should be allowed to make our own decisions - but the current 'grooming' of children into believing that they can avoid puberty issues and magic it all away with drugs and surgery is unethical and cruel.

PencilsInSpace · 21/01/2018 11:14

MsBeaujangles where is the 80% figure from please?

SuburbanRhonda · 21/01/2018 11:18

The comment by Silver Lady about why schools are so keen to bend to pressure to validate gender questioning children is interesting.

I’ve cut and pasted it to send to our PSHE consultant, who has used the 40% attempted suicide figure in training to school staff, and has refused to engage with me over my concerns about how aggressively this agenda is being pushed in schools.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 21/01/2018 11:21

Send her this too...

www.transgendertrend.com/stonewall-school-report-what-does-suicide-rate-mean/

JaimesGoldenHand · 21/01/2018 11:26

I came on to post a link to this. It's both heartening and depressing. This is such obvious stuff: how have we sleepwalked this far? The "no comment" seems to be classic TRA - they have no answers in the face of facts.

MsBeaujangles · 21/01/2018 11:27

Pencils. I know it because of my role and work based discussions but I know it has been discussed in the public domain.
I am off to engage in family life because my children have surfaced but I’ll be back with details once they tire of me and find more interesting people to engage with Smile

Terrylene · 21/01/2018 11:29

www.gires.org.uk/classroom-lesson-plans/

Take a look at the classroom lesson plans, and the penguin slides, for nursery and primary children. Change your gender, get a party!

GIREs is listed on all government and many other charities' and NGO groups as a resource/reference on anything to do with transgender.

(I haven't checked to see if they have corrected "'your" to "you're" yet - it pisses me off too much)

YetAnotherSpartacus · 21/01/2018 11:31

@MsBeaujangles - can you also tell us how many children who go on Lupron do and do not decide to continue with cross-sex hormone therapy? If there is any public data I'd love to read it.

ForagingForFaerieGold · 21/01/2018 11:31

Where are the parents in this? I never faced this with my DD, (and she was a proper "tomboy" and still wears quite "masculine" clothes and no makeup) but if I had, I'd like to believe that there's no way I would have allowed this just because some clown at her school told her she was actually a boy.

How do we educate the parents who are apparently as brainwashed as the kids themselves? But with far less of an excuse IMHO.

MiMi78 · 21/01/2018 11:32

I think this is the new Munchausens by proxy tbh.

Terrylene · 21/01/2018 11:35

Where are the parents in this? Scared stiff their child is going to commit suicide.

ForagingForFaerieGold · 21/01/2018 11:36

I think this is the new Munchausens by proxy tbh
Well it's certainly leading to criminal harm of children. I think you may be right.

It's terrifying.

Sevendown · 21/01/2018 11:42

Im so glad the times is publishing these articles.

Free speech is being strangled in this debate.

State sanctioned, funded and administered child abuse is being perpetrated against these vulnerable kids and someone needs to shout about it.

Sterilising children ‘who don’t fit in’ is about the most fascist act a government can do. These kids will die younger because of what is being done to them. It’s a national disgrace.

And no one can even talk openly about it!!

ForagingForFaerieGold · 21/01/2018 11:45

Where are the parents in this? Scared stiff their child is going to commit suicide.

Oh god yes. All the more reason, perhaps, to try and find a way to reach them and help them see that this isn't the way to handle it.
I wish I knew the answer. I know they aren't being offered an alternative and that's a huge problem too.

Elendon · 21/01/2018 11:48

I was a tomboy, loved football, played it with my brothers. I was always a wee bit weird though, very much female but loved/was jealous of boy's things.

Thank goodness I was never put up for assessment. I went on to have two long term relationships but now no longer feel the need to be with a man. I have had six pregnancies, three live births, and a lot of problems regarding women's health issues.

Women's health issues.

LangCleg · 21/01/2018 11:50

You know, it all reminds me of Jessica Eaton's campaign about the way in which schools are blindly using CSE film resources because they tick the box of "having done something" and vaguely sensible sounding orgs are selling them at an affordable price. But the films don't protect kids, victim blame, and retraumatise kids who have been abused.

It's the same unthinking urge to tick a box and virtue signal. Our institutions are always like this. Thick as mince.

BarrackerBarmer · 21/01/2018 11:53

My first instinct is to say, great, brave.
But.
My next is to think.

If it were me.
If I worked at the Tavistock, and began that career with great intentions.
And saw the exponential increase in referrals.
And noted the references to stereotypes, time and again.
And noticed parental viewpoints on homophobia
And read some gender critical viewpoints.
And saw the destruction of children's bodies, organs, fertility, health and future psychological wellbeing
And noted the #nodebate and who was driving it
And considered the analagous treatment of anorexic, which would be inconceivable
And watched laws beginning to change making gender an unchallengeable concept, but sex taboo.

If.

How long would I stay in my job? How long would I remain part of it all? Would I offer cautiously worded soundbites to the media whilst processing hundreds of children through that system?

I hope, no.
I hope I would use the extraordinary position of power and authority I possessed to blow the whole thing up. If I could bring some colleagues with me to add voices I would. If not, I'd resign alone, saturate the media with my perspective, and make the biggest noise I could about the whole catastrophe.

Because I couldn't be in a position where I was facilitating harm on this scale.

I keep hoping the Tavistock will, one day, get their ducks in a row, and with one voice say "this has all been a terrible mistake. We thought this was the right thing at first, but it's not. We need to stop. We've got this wrong, very wrong, and we have to halt it all"

guardianfree · 21/01/2018 11:53

Parents are regularly positioned as potentially unsupportive to children by TG organisations. They regularly promote keeping a child's decision to change sex confidential (in defiance of all safeguarding advice).
For decades schools have been advised to work in partnership with parents but apparently no longer with this group.
It's arrogant, lacking in knowledge of children and teenagers and so professionally dangerous.

Elendon · 21/01/2018 11:54

I might add that both my parents were teachers. Always the conflab over a glass or two of wine on a Friday night. We were often allowed to sit in and listen to them.

They very much gelled together regarding their profession, but their marriage was long past its sell by date.

Terrylene · 21/01/2018 11:57

I think the 40% (and more sometimes) statistic is bandied around willy nilly. Everyone who had 'education' is taught it.

I have twice been in a position where one of my dc had mental health crisis problems, and I have had that thought in the back of my mind that one day I could go in their room and find them dead, when trying to get through the crisis. It is scary. It is a HUGELY powerful tool - I would die rather than let one of my children die. It spurs you on but can be manipulated by others. Hmm

Popchyk · 21/01/2018 12:07

Is resigning the best thing, though, Barracker?

The management would just fill the vacant position with someone who toed the party line. And try to discredit you in the process.

I don't think you could resign and expect to stir up a huge national scandal. You can't saturate the media if the media, by and large, has no interest in this issue. Even those who did report on it might insist on putting the other side alongside your own story. So lots of "half of them will commit suicide if you don't let them trans" will be mixed in with your own story.

It isn't as easy as heroic whistleblower saves the day. Wish it was.

Maybe it is best to keep your job and speak out from there.

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