Break it down for me?

[TortiousTortoise]

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (been trying to talk to my husband about it and am struggling to articulate it).

I feel so awkward writing about this as I definitely don't want to come across as sounding horrible about transpeople, I just want to understand.

Also there are a lot of acronyms being thrown about. Can anyone help me out?

👍@RethinkingLife

I have nothing to add other than thanks for posting this. Truth will out, eventually.

A new study released 14th December 2022 from Nederlands and Denmark.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36534950/

Lisanne H P Houben, Maarten Overkamp, Puck van Kraaij, Jorn Trommelen, Joep G H van Roermund, Peter de Vries, Kevin de Laet, Saskia van der Meer, Ulla R Mikkelsen, Lex B Verdijk, Luc J C van Loon, Sandra Beijer, Milou Beelen

Abstract

Purpose: To assess the effects of 20 weeks resistance exercise training with or without protein supplementation on body composition, muscle mass, muscle strength, physical performance and aerobic capacity in prostate cancer patients receiving androgen deprivation therapy (ADT).

Methods: Sixty prostate cancer patients receiving ADT were randomly assigned to perform 20 weeks of resistance exercise training with supplementation of 31 g whey protein (EX+PRO, n = 30) or placebo (EX+PLA, n = 30), consumed immediately after exercise and every night before sleep. A separate control group (CON, n = 36) only received usual care. At baseline and after 20 weeks, body composition (dual energy X-ray absorptiometry), muscle mass (computed tomography scan), muscle strength (1-repetition maximum strength tests), physical performance (Timed Up and Go Test, 30-second Chair Stand Test, Stair Climb Test), aerobic capacity (cardiopulmonary exercise test) and habitual dietary intake (food diary), were assessed. Data were analyzed using a two-factor repeated-measures ANOVA.

Results: Over time, muscle mass and strength increased in EX+PRO and EX+PLA and decreased in CON. Total fat mass and fat percentage increased in EX+PRO and CON, but not in EX+PLA. Physical performance did not significantly change over time in either group. Aerobic capacity was maintained in EX+PLA, while it decreased in EX+PRO and CON. Habitual protein intake (without supplements) averaged >1.0 g·kg body weight-1·day-1, with no differences over time or between groups.

Conclusions: In prostate cancer patients, resistance exercise training counteracts the adverse effects of ADT on body composition, muscle mass, muscle strength and aerobic capacity, with no additional benefits of protein supplementation.

Wow, what a line in that report quoted by Helleofabore "identifying as female with external genitalia" - horrific mangling of language just to avoid saying the obvious!

Danish Sex crime statistics from 2013. 2013 was when self id was brought in.

For those who declare there has been no negative impacts in countries with self ID. Although maybe those argument no negative impact don’t believe that crimes being recorded as being by female people when those are male people is ‘negative ’.

Affirming only pushback continues.

A few interesting papers that lead to other interesting papers. This post will contain links but I hope to add more later.

The Dutch Model is falling apart

By Stella O'Malley / 2 January 2023

First, Stella O’Malley writes about an article in Nederlands that is throwing a great deal of light on the Dutch Protocol. It also seems that there will be a review of the patients that the Dutch team had not previously included in their papers.

This article in the Nederlands points out the dangers on only using a nation’s own sources with no international input or even wide review.

genspect.org/the-dutch-model-is-falling-apart/

Then SEGM has published on Colin Wright’s substack a version of their previously published article.

5 False Assumptions Behind Youth Gender Transitions

2nd Jan 2023

www.realityslaststand.com/p/5-false-assumptions-behind-youth

Here is the original

segm.org/false-assumptions-gender-affirmation-minors

( segm.org )

[This reviewed Stephen M. Rosenthal‘s paper in Nature, 10 August 2021:

“Challenges in the care of transgender and gender-diverse youth: an endocrinologist’s view”

www.nature.com/articles/s41574-021-00535-9 ]

[note: there is a paper rebutting this one linked below]

The five unproven assumptions are:

Unproven Assumption 1: Gender identity, which underlies gender dysphoria, is a fundamental personal characteristic that is biologically “ingrained.”

Unproven Assumption 2: The sharp rise in the number of youth presenting with gender dysphoria does not signal a true increase in cases—it’s merely better detection.

False Assumption 3: Medical interventions in gender-dysphoric minors have clear eligibility criteria.

False Assumption 4: Medical interventions for gender dysphoric minors have been demonstrated to be safe and effective.

Unproven Assumption 5: Detransition does not represent medical harm and is rare.

This has then had quite a few interesting links.

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2160396?src=

Some Limitations of “Challenges in the Care of Transgender and Gender-Diverse Youth: An Endocrinologist’s View”

from J. Cohn, Published online: 24 Dec 2022

Abstract:

There is significant disagreement about how to support trans-identified or gender-dysphoric young people. Different experts and expert bodies make strikingly different recommendations based upon the same (limited) evidence. The US-originating “gender-affirmative” model emphasizes social transition and medical intervention, while some other countries, in response to evidence reviews of medical intervention outcomes, have adopted psychological interventions as the first line of treatment. A proposed model of gender-affirming care, comprising only medical intervention for “eligible” youth, is described in Rosenthal (2021). Determining eligibility for these medical interventions is challenging and engenders considerable disagreement among experts, neither of which is mentioned. The review also claims without support that medical interventions have been shown to clearly benefit mental health, and leaves out significant risks and less invasive alternatives. The unreliability of outcome studies and the corresponding uncertainties as to how gender dysphoria develops and responds to treatment are also unreported.

This has many other links to follow.

Then there was this review of US Military health insurance records for transition persistence.

academic.oup.com/jcem/article-abstract/107/9/e3937/6572526?redirectedFrom=fulltext&login=false

”Continuation of Gender-affirming Hormones Among Transgender Adolescents and Adults”

Christina M Roberts,
David A Klein, Terry A Adirim,
Natasha A Schvey, Elizabeth Hisle-Gorman

22 April 2022

Results
The study sample included 627 transmasculine and 325 transfeminine individuals with an average age of 19.2 ± 5.3 years. The 4-year gender-affirming hormone continuation rate was 70.2% (95% CI, 63.9-76.5). Transfeminine individuals had a higher continuation rate than transmasculine individuals 81.0% (72.0%-90.0%) vs 64.4% (56.0%-72.8%). People who started hormones as minors had higher continuation rate than people who started as adults 74.4% (66.0%-82.8%) vs 64.4% (56.0%-72.8%). Continuation was not associated with household income or family member type. In Cox regression, both transmasculine gender identity (hazard ratio, 2.40; 95% CI, 1.50-3.86) and starting hormones as an adult (hazard ratio, 1.69; 95% CI, 1.14-2.52) were independently associated with increased discontinuation rates.

I can only hope that Dr Cass has seen these and found them interesting too.

A fascinating thread from today that's worth preserving for the record:

archive.ph/2023.01.08-095455/www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4715126-heres-why-need-to-stop-going-on-about-chromosomes

Starts with a new talking point about the lack of significance of the second X chromosome(!), but when that goes down poorly, turns into a gish gallop throwing pretty much every fallacious justification for sex not being real, then we start heading for a strange reality flip as OP curiously expires on page 9, with some tragic final words.

Fascinating to see the state-of-the-art arguments from the other side.

(In the end everyone ends up talking about Weetabix, soda bread, and, um, miasmas.)

I was disappointed to see that the thread had been deleted, thank you for the speedy preservation NecessaryScene

Adding this link for the Messaging Guide : Transgender Youth and the Freedom to Be Ourselves

From December 2021

static1.squarespace.com/static/5fd0f29d0d626c5fb471be74/t/61b13d00236e2f7f2dbb9a36/1639005441624/Transgender+Youth+and+the+Freedom+to+Be+Ourselves.pdf

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4439659-Ryan-Grim-results-of-latest-trans-activism-poll-A-tweaked-playbook-for-the-US?reply=113763453

The Transgender Law Center’s work.

(I can never find it when I want it.)

New analysis of the Census information by the Womens Rights Network

www.womensrights.network/post/what-actually-is-the-risk-posed-by-transwomen

www.theguardian.com/education/2023/jan/09/children-multiple-safeguarding-risks-out-of-school-settings-england

Children face multiple safeguarding risks at out-of-school settings in England

9th January 2023

Refers to this report

www.gov.uk/government/publications/oversight-of-out-of-school-settings-lessons-learnt-from-the-dfe-funded-pilot

A government report has identified multiple safeguarding risks at “out-of-school settings” (OOSS), which include sports clubs, tuition centres and uniformed youth groups attended by millions of children across England every week, prompting calls for better oversight of the sector.

Jfc

This means compared to men, transwomen are 251% more likely to commit and be convicted of a sexual offence.

Thank you so much for this.

This thread is an Invaluable resource, thank you to all who maintain it. We will need #2, most definitely.

The women of Wales need help now more than ever. Have a look at what Drakeford the bawbag misogynist is up to now by checking Welsh women’s rights groups on Twitter & Facebook

Bump

I am adding this link to Wings over Scotland which depicts the background of a person, with many allegations of abuse against them, who has been continually lauded by members of SNP and scot Greens. Picklebee / Beth Douglas

wingsoverscotland.com/the-grooming-of-holyrood/

it is also archived.

LGB Alliance transcript

lgballiance.org.uk/tribunal-transcript/

www.iglyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IGLYO_v3-1.pdf

The Denton's report in full as I don't think it was uploaded here.

Archive dot is has several versions as well.

twitter.com/runthinkwrite/status/1621072256846950400?s=46&t=ig4wy4ZxTb223nzt6s9t9Q

These are the slides released by Harper on Bridges performance. There is an increase in performance that correlates to the training effort. And when training drops so does performance.

The IOC paid for this.

Meaningful competition by Jon Pike

Why ‘Meaningful Competition’ is not fair competition

6th Feb 2023

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00948705.2023.2167720

ABSTRACT

In this paper I discuss a new conception that has arrived relatively recently on the scene, in the context of the debate over the inclusion of transwomen (hereafter TW) in female sport. That conception is ‘Meaningful Competition’ (hereafter MC) – a term used by some of those who advocate for the inclusion of TW in female sport if and only if they reduce their testosterone levels. I will argue that MC is not fair. I understand MC as a substitute concept, as an attempt to substitute for the perfectly serviceable concept of fair competition. It is an attempt at conceptual engineering that should be resisted. This is important because some International Federations have accepted MC as good coin, and the underlying theory of MC, which I explicate for the first time, underpins the stance taken by the IOC (International Olympic Committee) in its Framework Document. To establish that the inclusion of TW in female sport meets the criteria of MC in the sense I explicate here, does not show that the inclusion of TW in female sport is fair. Such inclusion is not fair, and the proper currency of sport is fair competition. ‘Meaningful Competition’, on the other hand, is a snare and a delusion.

Jo Phoenix’s latest.

Rights & Wrongs: How gender self identification policy places women at risk in prison.

macdonaldlaurier.ca/wp-content/uploads/2023/02/20230117_Rights_and_wrongs_Phoenix_PAPER_FWeb.pdf

Feb 2023

In this MLI paper, titled Rights and wrongs: How gender self-identification policy places women at risk in prison, Jo Phoenix examines the effects of CD100, arguing that it actively places women at risk, undermines their rights, and disproportionately disadvantages minority women.

“There is no substantial evidence to support a prison placement policy that permits transgender prisoners to choose the prison in which they will serve their time,” argues Phoenix. “But we do have a mounting number of specific instances where women have been directly harmed as a result of such policies.”

According to the author, the offences of many women who end up in the criminal justice system take place against a backdrop of economic inequality (relative to men), disproportionately high rates of violent victimization, and hugely disproportionately higher rates of sexual assault. Thus, CD100 creates a new layer of vulnerability for an already vulnerable group.

“Women prisoners who are retraumatized by the presence of male bodied individuals – especially in rehabilitation programs that may well be discussing male violence – cannot simply leave and find another group to attend,” writes Phoenix.

The author concludes that the main driver for the change in Canadian prison placement policy was neither evidence nor legal necessity, but politics. The implication of this report is that Canadian law and policy-makers need to consider whether prisons are (or ought to be) seen as places where the bona fide exemption clause in the Canadian Human Rights Act applies.

Doctor scrutiny on gender clinic reveals legal and safety fears

The Australian , Natasha Robinson, 17th February 2023

archive.ph/DMT87

Senior physicians at the NSW Children’s Hospital Westmead’s gender clinic have studied the physical and mental health of 79 patients in a rare academic study of the outcomes of children who presented with gender distress and gender dysphoria. The findings cast doubt on the scientific basis of the gender-affirming approach followed by the nation’s other children’s hospitals.

In an open access academic paper, CHW psychiatrists, endocrinologists and other physicians, and a senior medical ethics expert, called for a “much more nuanced and complex approach” as analysis revealed 88 per cent of children presenting at Westmead’s gender clinic had at least one co-morbid mental health condition, with more than 50 per cent diagnosed with behavioural disorders or autism. One in five children who consulted the clinic with gender-related distress later had these feelings resolved, and almost one in 10 with a formal diagnosis of gender dysphoria, some who had taken puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones, later discontinued transitioning.

And

The CHW doctors have raised concerns that “many unknowns remain” regarding the long-term effects of puberty blockers, which are described by the Royal Children's Hospital Melbourne as “reversible in their effects”. International evidence is in fact casting greater doubt on whether the effects of these medications are reversible. Endocrine reviews of the CHW patient cohort documented side-effects in 23 of the 49 young people prescribed puberty blockers, including low bone density, hot flushes, weight gain and anxiety. The CHW doctors raised concerns about long-term effects on patients’ sexual function in adulthood.
Within the 9 per cent cohort of patients with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria who had desisted – that is, discontinued the transgender pathway 4-9 years after consulting the gender clinic – three had undergone puberty suppression beginning at the average age of 12. Three had taken cross-sex hormones, one from as young as 15, but not prescribed by CHW. The effects of cross-sex hormones, including infertility, are irreversible.

The article above refers to

Distress: A Prospective Follow-Up Study

by Joseph Elkadi, Catherine Chudleigh, Ann M. Maguire, Geoffrey R. Ambler, Stephen Scher and Kasia Kozlowska

www.mdpi.com/2227-9067/10/2/314

This prospective case-cohort study examines the developmental pathway choices of 79 young people (13.25–23.75 years old; 33 biological males and 46 biological females) referred to a tertiary care hospital’s Department of Psychological Medicine (December 2013–November 2018, at ages 8.42–15.92 years) for diagnostic assessment for gender dysphoria (GD) and for potential gender-affirming medical interventions. All of the young people had attended a screening medical assessment (including puberty staging) by paediatricians. The Psychological Medicine assessment (individual and family) yielded a formal DSM-5 diagnosis of GD in 66 of the young people. Of the 13 not meeting DSM-5 criteria, two obtained a GD diagnosis at a later time. This yielded 68 young people (68/79; 86.1%) with formal diagnoses of GD who were potentially eligible for gender-affirming medical interventions and 11 young people (11/79; 13.9%) who were not. Follow-up took place between November 2022 and January 2023. Within the GD subgroup (n = 68) (with two lost to follow-up), six had desisted (desistance rate of 9.1%; 6/66), and 60 had persisted on a GD (transgender) pathway (persistence rate of 90.9%; 60/66). Within the cohort as a whole (with two lost to follow-up), the overall persistence rate was 77.9% (60/77), and overall desistance rate for gender-related distress was 22.1% (17/77). Ongoing mental health concerns were reported by 44/50 (88.0%), and educational/occupational outcomes varied widely. The study highlights the importance of careful screening, comprehensive biopsychosocial (including family) assessment, and holistic therapeutic support. Even in highly screened samples of children and adolescents seeking a GD diagnosis and gender-affirming medical care, outcome pathways follow a diverse range of possibilities.

Conclusions

The data from this study show that when young people with gender distress present to health services seeking medical interventions, they end up following a diverse range of developmental pathways. The availability of gender-affirming medical interventions for the treatment of gender dysphoria is a recent one, evolving from the work of clinicians in the Netherlands. Early studies have suggested that medical interventions were associated with positive outcomes. This early body of work consequently served as the foundation for subsequent treatment guidelines and became established in medical systems via streamlined assessment processes and treatment pathways. The concept of medical affirmation was embedded in the broader culture by media and internet channels.

Together, these processes gave young people with gender-related distress a clear message: “This is the best way to proceed,” and “The medical affirmation pathway will take away your gender dysphoria.” For many young people and their families, however, these messages favouring medical interventions, coupled with professionals’ affirmation of this pathway, potentially displaced their consideration of other options or other pathways.

The young people and families who presented to our service typically came to us with settled ideas concerning their prospective treatment pathways. In particular, based on what was known at the time, and given the severity of the young persons’ distress, they and their families considered medical treatment for gender dysphoria to be the single best option. In the last five years, however, the gender-affirming medical model has been questioned by both clinicians (who have highlighted the current lack of a solid evidence base and detransitioners (who have highlighted the potential for adverse outcomes). The current evidence suggests the need for a much more nuanced and complex approach. As research data pertaining to long-term outcomes continues to accumulate, “the best way to proceed” is likely to be seen as ranging over a much more diverse range of treatment options and pathways, with each supported by a stronger evidence base than is currently available.

A new documentary has been released. It is a great discussion about detransitioners, about transitioning, the treatment changes and mostly either detransitioners or clinicians voices.

vimeo.com/800032857

if Vimeo doesn’t work try this tweet.

mobile.twitter.com/2022affirmation

Or this website

affirmationgenerationmovie.com

AFFIRMATION GENERATION: The Lies of Transgender Medicine reveals the push to medicalize non-conforming youth, exposes the damage already done and warns of an epidemic of medical malpractice to come.

by Panacol Productions

Note: there is a donate button as this video is free to watch.

Here is a great webinar about Gender medicine in children from Sex Matters.

There is a slide in this presentation at 25.20 that I think is crucial to understand. That Wiepjes

Time to follow-up 4.6 yrs
Time to regret - 10.8 yrs

van der Loos et al (2023) & Wiepjes et al (2018)

That time to regret was noted in this study

academic.oup.com/jsm/article/15/4/582/6980345?login=false

"The Amsterdam Cohort of Gender Dysphoria Study (1972–2015): Trends in Prevalence, Treatment, and Regrets". April 2018

Chantal M. Wiepjes,
Nienke M. Nota,
Christel J.M. de Blok,
Maartje Klaver,
Annelou L.C. de Vries, S. Annelijn Wensing-Kruger,
Renate T. de Jongh,
Mark-Bram Bouman,
Thomas D. Steensma,
Peggy Cohen-Kettenis
Louis J.G. Gooren,
Baudewijntje P.C. Kreukels,
Martin den Heijer

"in our population the average time to regret was 130 months, so it might be too early to examine regret rates in people who started with HT in the past 10 years."

130 / 12 = 10.8

Adding to this thread as it was published on 2 January 2023

The Myth of “Reliable Research” in Pediatric Gender Medicine: A critical evaluation of the Dutch Studies—and research that has followed

E. Abbruzzese, Stephen B. Levine, Julia W. Mason

www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0092623X.2022.2150346

Our analysis of the Dutch protocol has been written with three goals in mind. First, we wanted to definitively refute the claims that the foundational Dutch research represents “solid prospective research” that provides reliable evidence of net benefits of youth gender transition. In fact, it is much better described as case series—one of the lowest levels of evidence available (Dekkers et al., Citation2012, Mathes & Pieper, Citation2017). Second, we aimed to demonstrate that the type of non-comparative, short-term research that the gender medicine establishment continues to pursue is incapable of generating reliable information. And third and most importantly, we wanted to remind the medical community that medicine is a double-edged sword capable of both much good and much harm. The burden of proof—demonstrating that a treatment does more good than harm—is on those promoting the intervention, not on those concerned about the harms. Until gender medicine commits to conducting high quality research capable of reliably demonstrating the preponderance of benefits over harms of these invasive interventions, we must be skeptical of the enthusiasm generated by headlines claiming that yet another “gender study” proved benefits of transitioning youth. This time-honored concern about risk/benefit ratio is a sobering reminder that the history of medicine is replete with examples of “cures” which turned out to far more harmful than the “disease.”