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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Break it down for me?

1000 replies

TortiousTortoise · 20/01/2018 22:16

Hi all, I am fairly new to the discussion on the impact that transwomen are having on women generally and I want to more fully understand the issues (been trying to talk to my husband about it and am struggling to articulate it).

I feel so awkward writing about this as I definitely don't want to come across as sounding horrible about transpeople, I just want to understand.

Also there are a lot of acronyms being thrown about. Can anyone help me out?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
47
OrangeJuicy · 09/02/2019 18:26

Btw this site, Prospects was being used in high school, ages 11- 16. Don't know if used in primary. I checked and it asked me the question on kindle so I assume also on tablets, laptop and pc. On phone I didn't notice if it did but I was rushing . I can't stop thinking about this one. It's creeping me out, it's like social engineering

Yeahnahyeah · 13/02/2019 02:34

Bumping for my sister Smile

R0wantrees · 15/02/2019 07:50

extended important article by Hacsi Horváth
'The Theatre of the Body: A detransitioned epidemiologist examines suicidality, affirmation, and transgender identity'
(extract)
"I am an adjunct Lecturer in the Department of Epidemiology and Biostatistics at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF). I’m an expert in clinical epidemiology, particularly in systematic review methods, epidemiologic bias and evidence quality assessment. As a researcher at UCSF, I managed the Cochrane HIV/AIDS Group for over a decade and on several occasions served as a consultant to the World Health Organization (WHO) in their HIV guideline development processes.

For about 13 years, I also masqueraded “as a woman,” taking medical measures which suggest, shall we say, that I was completely committed to that lifestyle. Most men would have recoiled from this, but in my estrogen-drug-soaked stupor it seemed like a good idea. In 2013 I stopped taking estrogen for health reasons and very rapidly came back to my senses. I ceased all effort to convey the impression that I was a woman and carried on with life." (continues)

"I don’t believe GD [gender dysphoria] reflects any kind of problem or glitch in the human body. Here’s what I suggest, in broad strokes, is going on with adolescents and adults:

Heterosexual males (the vast majority of men with GD) have autogynephilia.
Homosexual males with GD enjoy “femininity” and mistakenly believe this means they are “trans” or even women.
Females with GD have internalized misogyny and/or internalized homophobia.
In my opinion—which is based upon extensive research, as well as my own 13-year-long experience in pretending to be a woman–GD is only superficially concerned with one’s sex. It’s more a disturbance of identity, of mistaking the signifier for the signified. Patients have whatever mental illnesses they may have, or that develop while in the ruminations and hypomanic states that typically precede “coming out as trans.” I propose that GD is a moody, brooding syndrome that accompanies these mental illnesses. People with GD have cultivated an idealized vision of themselves as the opposite sex. At a critical point of rumination, after the patient has sufficiently disparaged his or her actual life and idealized life as the opposite sex, he or she realizes that body parts of the opposite sex may be obtained through the services of doctors (Raymond 1979, Billings 1982). Actually transforming into the opposite sex starts to seem feasible. The self-conception “splits” in two, and idealization becomes identity. Having negated any value in their actual male or female presence in the world, and now feeling themselves to actually be the self-generated persona, patients perseveratively ask themselves, “what’s stopping me?” “Feasibility” seems to trigger the split. Here begins the acute phase of GD.

Patients become obsessed with “transition.” To the same extent that they can be energized by the belief that they are making “progress,” as their bodies morph via the hormone drugs and shop clerks address them by their preferred honorifics (i.e. Miss or Ma’am for the males, Sir for the females), they can also feel destroyed by any little delay or perceived setback—including being “misgendered” or identified by others as their actual sex. Nothing else matters but “transition.” The apparent certainty of these patients, as well as their zeal to continue, is seen by “affirmative care” doctors as evidence of “being trans.”

Gender is a hierarchal framework that stratifies and categorizes “masculine” and “feminine” attributes and behaviors. In the context of transgenderism, it is also a convenient rhetorical device to elide the problem of sexed bodies and to label oneself as endorsing one or the other sets of sex role stereotypes. Earlier articulations of GD as “gender identity disorder” made more sense, but it seems that most people understood it to mean “having an opposite-sex gender identity.” I would suggest that it may more accurately be understood as simply an identity disorder, a disordered or disturbed identity, with a fixation on gender.

I agree with the late French psychoanalyst Colette Chiland when she said: “Transsexuals stage everything in the theatre of the body, and nothing in that of the psyche” (Chiland 2003). It is true that persons in the driven, obsessed stages of gender dysphoria can seemingly think of nothing except transition. No-one dreams of asking them to slow down, to seek psychotherapy, perhaps even find a way through this work to prevent transition, which can be costly on so many levels. It would be like standing in the way of a bolting, bucking horse. The fact that people with gender dysphoria are like this is a sign that something is wrong, yet they are not impeded at all.

But doctors are doctors and patients are patients. These surgeries and lifelong hormonal drug regimens didn’t used to be given out like crackerjack prizes. Virtually no research has been done in psychotherapeutic methods to alleviate the symptoms of gender dysphoria, prevent it, or get rid of it altogether. The entire literature comprises a couple of dozen case reports and small case series, some promising, nearly all from before 1990, and all using archaic methods. Based primarily on the pronouncement of Harry Benjamin, the “godfather” of transsexualism, that psychotherapy with these patients was a waste of time, the medical profession increasingly found ways to justify surgical and hormonal transition as the standard of care (Billings 1982). I will get back to this near the end of the article." (continues)
4thwavenow.com/2018/12/19/the-theatre-of-the-body-a-detransitioned-epidemiologist-examines-suicidality-affirmation-and-transgender-identity/

R0wantrees · 15/02/2019 08:21

Virtually no research has been done in psychotherapeutic methods to alleviate the symptoms of gender dysphoria, prevent it, or get rid of it altogether. The entire literature comprises a couple of dozen case reports and small case series, some promising, nearly all from before 1990, and all using archaic methods. Based primarily on the pronouncement of Harry Benjamin, the “godfather” of transsexualism, that psychotherapy with these patients was a waste of time, the medical profession increasingly found ways to justify surgical and hormonal transition as the standard of care (Billings 1982)

Weren't women's rights disregarded from the start when the male doctors required males who wanted to change their sex 'live in role' for two years?

The doctors who may be seen as 'gatekeeping' surgical and medical interventions for their patients effectively granted some men permission and requirement to access female spaces.

(God complex / male entitlement?)

R0wantrees · 15/02/2019 08:29

thread with incredibly important descriptions of women's experiences who had undergone medical and surgical interventions having wrongly being affirmed as 'transgender'

These women have been harmed by doctors and trans ideology which wrongly framed their traumas, difficulties and sexuality. Affirmation denied the possibility of meaningful psychological support to identify the core issues.

Increasing numbers of young women are describing the considerable pressures put on them by some in the trans community to deny their experiences as well as the impact when they bravely speak out.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3507109-Pique-Resilience-Project-young-detransitioned-women-sharing-their-personal-stories

R0wantrees · 27/02/2019 13:05

Important and very powerful thread collecting answers to the OP Glinner's request,

I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology and activism. I've also asked on Twitter but thought this might be good for longer answers.

Please tell me your stories!

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3518546-help-a-brother-out

R0wantrees · 27/02/2019 13:43

Olly Lambert's twitter response to Graham Linehan's request 'I'd like to collect some anecdotes about when and why you first became involved in the debate about gender ideology/activism'

(OL was the Director of 'Trans Kids, Its Time to Talk' documentary)

"It was probably the moment I realised that not a single charity, journalist, support group or doctor who supported the affirmation of trans kids would take part in a documentary that wanted to ask valid questions about the treatment of …trans kids. THREAD 1/13

At the start of this, I’d undoubtedly have called myself an ally, and still do in a different way. Live and let live, give people the lives and freedoms they want, let kids live their true lives. /2

The film “Trans Kids: It’s Time to Talk” sought to ask if if the medication and affirmation of trans kids was always the right path. I’d expected passionate and articulate charities & campaign groups would want to take part and speak about how this process helps. /3

And yet in almost 20 years of making films, I’d never encountered such a systematic refusal to debate something so patently important. Every single "pro trans kids" group refused to speak, and I had to ask why. /4

Stonewall refused, saying that as the film included “gender critical” voices it would be ‘denying the existence of trans people’. This was laughable. Interviews with trans people make up nearly half the film. /5

Britain’s only private “gender GP” Helen Webberley said she’d take part on condition that Stephanie Davies-Arai and @David @DavidTCDavies were not included. Amazed, we asked if there were others she didn’t want us to talk to. She said she’d need to check the “little list” /6

Maria Miller MP didn’t have even ten minutes free in the following 3 months (!) to be interviewed about the Women’s & Equalities Select Committee (which she chairs), adding that she was no longer involved in the trans debate. (But… /7

...On the day Maria Miller wrote this to me, Stonewall sent an invitation to MPs inviting them to a “panel event on trans equality, held in partnership with Maria Miller MP…”) /8

Paris Lees pulled out of two meetings, both times on the day they were supposed to happen, before saying she didn’t have time to take part. /9

Mermaids had various reasons, falsely stating that the author & psychotherapist presenter @stellaomalley3 was “unqualified” and “confused”. They also wouldn’t take part because “the film will be one sided” (their refusal to take part only serving to make that more likely). /10

Lily Madigan refused because there was “nothing to debate”. /11

Jake Graf wouldn’t even speak on the phone. Owen Jones ignored all emails and requests via an intermediary. Jane Fae said no. Gendered Intelligence never replied to emails. And on and on. /12

The only organisation who I felt gave a valid reason was the Tavistock. After a long meeting with Polly Carmichael (who was thoughtful, nuanced and recognised the complexity) they ultimately declined saying they feared their words would be “weaponised” by all sides. /13

So my question remains: if a treatment is so right, if your position is so unarguably good, why not talk about it? Feeling that you’re so correct you can’t be disagreed with is a really, really bad look. /14

Anyway. We made the film. You can see it here:
vimeo.com/304866757 "

threader.app/thread/1100693458048770048

discussion about the documentary:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430608-Stella-OMalley-Trans-Kids-Its-Time-To-Talk

Its not just a 'bad look' is a failure of Duty of Care and has massive implications for Safeguarding, Chilld Protection and Charity governance as well as importantly MPs & Ministers' responsibility

Yeahnahyeah · 02/03/2019 19:40

For Lucy Smile

Yeahnahyeah · 09/03/2019 20:14

Bump Smile

R0wantrees · 14/03/2019 12:32

MSP Joan McAlpine's comments this week about the serious implications with regards crime data & use of gender self-id rather than sex:

"THREAD Following my justice question today, I am grateful that @ HumzaYousaf has offered to meet criminologists concerned that crime is recorded according to the "self identified" gender of the perpetrator.
twitter.com/UpIander/status/1105843659587637249

These criminologists would include the academic consultancy Murray Blackburn Mackenzie who produced this recent paper on the subject, sent to the @ NACWGScot

twitter.com/lnmackenzie1/status/1105864545787092992

This is a UK wide issue - @ metpoliceuk began recording crime according to self declared gender in 2009. However "gender identity" has no status in law, unlike sex, a protected characteristic in the Equality Act 2010 - see here

twitter.com/HairyLeggdHarpy/status/1105876457434296323

The English Crown Prosecution Service @ hmcpsi operate same policy designed along with a number of trans lobby groups, many of whom are well funded from the public purse

twitter.com/Docstockk/status/1105873759012048897

This matters as most crimes of violence & nearly all sex offences are committed by natal males. That's not to say most males are violent or perverts. My male friends, colleagues, relatives are lovely. But male violence is statistically undeniable

Similarly, criminologists are not saying male to female trans people are more likely to offend. We don't have enough data on that. But this study found "transwomen" retained male pattern offending after transition. here

Long-Term Follow-Up of Transsexual Persons Undergoing Sex Reassignment Surgery: Cohort Study in Sweden
Context The treatment for transsexualism is sex reassignment, including hormonal treatment and surgery aimed at making the person's body as congruent with the opposite sex as possible. There is a dea…
journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885

The Swedish survey concerned people who had surgery.. UK courts and police don't require that - they just accept people are the sex they claim, even if the offender looks like this

JAILED: Sex offender targets youngsters for a THIRD time
A DANGEROUS sex offender is back behind bars after she abused a youngster for the third time.
www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/16953087.jailed-sex-offender-jacinta-brooks-targets-youngsters-for-a-third-time/

These cases are happening - just recently a male born offender who attacked two little girls in a toilet in Fife, was recorded as female and put in a female hostel!"

www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/news/local/fife/832849/warning-as-transgender-sex-offender-placed-in-womens-hostel/

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1105945831205687296.html

threads:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3532109-Joan-McAlpine-MSP-now-asks-about-how-Police-record-transgender-criminals

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3532499-New-thread-from-Joan-McAlpine-MSP

reported in TheTimes, 'Letting criminals self-identify gender ‘putting women at risk’

(extract)
"Joan McAlpine, a fellow SNP MSP, had raised concerns that sexual offences are disproportionately perpetrated by biological men and asked whether self-identification would therefore lead to a “misleading” rise in the number of women recorded as sex-offenders. Official statistics show that 1,007 men were convicted for sexual crimes from 2017 to 2018, compared with 46 women.

Ms McAlpine, 57, said: “Aside from the statistical corruption, I cannot be the only woman who finds it deeply offensive that male sexual violence can ever be badged as a female crime.

“The Crown Prosecution Service in England and Wales take a similar approach [to the Scottish government] — it’s another example of self-identification being introduced by the back door in response to publicly-funded lobby groups.”

She highlighted the case of Katie Dolatowski, 18, a transgender sex offender who preyed on girls in public toilets in Fife and was housed in women-only accommodation after being convicted. Ms McAlpine said the policy meant Dolatowski was “recorded as a woman, when this person doesn’t even have a gender recognition certificate and is therefore legally male”. (continues)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/letting-criminals-self-identify-gender-putting-women-at-risk-8560wzkqt

threads re Dolatowski who filmed & sexually assaulted two young girls in women's supermarket toilets when he was 17 years old.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3329936-teen-films-girl-in-toilet

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3496984-Article-in-Dundee-Courier-about-assault-of-10-year-old-girl-in-supermarket-toilets

Justification for placing a male registered sex-offender in 'single sex' hostel with vulnerable females:
(extract)
"She was released from Polmont young offender institution into women-only supported accommodation in Fife because she would otherwise have been homeless.

Asked how Dolatowski could pass a risk assessment to live in a women-only hostel having targeted two girls, a council spokeswoman said: “These are women, they weren’t girls.”

She added that the decision to admit Dolatowski to a female hostel was guided by the National Accommodation Strategy for Sex Offenders, which does not mention transgender people." (cont)
www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-sex-attacker-sent-to-female-hostel-c3vw35c06?shareToken=a81d15b744582b6b1f69bca121db4bf2

R0wantrees · 20/03/2019 22:33

Interesting perspective from 40 years ago.
H/t Funkaccino for sharing:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3538513-I-think-youll-all-find-this-interesting

Male and Female Created He Them
By THOMAS SZASZJUNE 10, 1979
IN the old days, when I was a medical student, if a man wanted to have his penis amputated, my psychology professors said that he suffered from schizophrenia, locked him up in an asylum and threw away the key. Now that I am a professor. my colleagues in psychiatry say that he is a “transsexual,” my colleagues in urology refashion his penis into a perineal cavity they call a vagina, and Time magazine puts him on its cover and calls him “her.” Anyone who doubts that this is progress is considered to be ignorant of the discoveries of modern psychiatric sexology, and a political reactionary, a sexual bigot, or something equally unflattering." (continues)

concludes:
Miss Raymond quotes a Casablanca surgeon, who has operated on more than 700 American men, characterizing the transsexual transformation as follows: “I don't change men into women. I transform male genitals into genitals that have a female aspect. All the rest is in the patient's mind ".

Not quite. Some of the rest is in society's “mind.” For the fact is that Renee Richards was endorsed by Billie Jean King as a real woman and was accepted by the authorities monitoring women's professional tennis as a “real woman.” This authentication of a “constructed female” as a real female stands in dramatic contrast to the standard rules of Olympic competition in which the contestants’ bodily contours count for nothing, their sexual identity being based solely on their chromosomal makeup.

Miss Raymond has rightly seized on transsexualism as an emblem of modern society's unremitting — though increasingly concealed — antifeminism. And she correctly emphasizes that “the terminology of transsexualism disguises the reality ... that transsexuals ‘prove’ they are transsexuals by conforming to the canons of the medical‐psychiatric institution that evaluates them on the basis of their being able to pass as stereotypically masculine or feminine, and that ultimately grants surgery on this basis.” The “transsexual empire” is thus a Trojan horse in the battle between the sexes, helping men to seduce unsuspecting women, or women who ought to know better, to join forces with their oppressors.

Still, why should anyone (especially feminist women) object to men wanting to become women? Isn't imitation the highest form of flattery? Precisely herein lies the “liberal” sexologists’ betrayal of human dignity and integrity: They support the (male) transsexual's claim that he wants to be a woman — when, in fact, what he wants is to be a caricature of the male definition of “femininity.” What makes transsexual surgery a male‐supremacist obscenity is the fact that transsexing surgeons do not perform the operation on all clients (just for the money) but insist that the client prove that he can “pass” as a woman. That is as if Catholic priests were willing to convert only those Jews who could prove their Christianity by socially appropriate acts of antiSemitism. Janice Raymond's analysis is bitterly correct. The very existence of the “transsexual empire” is evidence of the persistence of our deep‐seated religious and cultural preju‐dices against woman.

The war between the sexes is a part of our, human heritage. It's no use denying It. If that war ever ends, it will be not because of a phony armistice arranged by doctors, but because men, women and children will place personal dignity before social sex‐role identity."

www.nytimes.com/1979/06/10/archives/male-and-female-created-he-them-transexual.html

heresyisthenewblack · 22/03/2019 11:13

Copied OP from SpartacusAutisticusAHF from thread

Sheila Jeffreys, an English radical feminist and author, has spent more than forty years fighting for women and girls’ sex-based rights. In 2014 she wrote a book Gender Hurts which controversially rejects the politics of transgenderism. Last week she was in New York with the Women’s Human Rights Campaign helping to launch the Declaration on Women’s Sex-Based rights. Here is a quote from an interview she gave with National Review:

"If you look at WPATH [World Psychological Association of Transgender Health] for instance, which is putting out a lot of the ideas and theories about transgenderism, purporting to be a medical organization, you need to look at who the funders are. And of course, it’s drug companies. It’s all the major drug companies. All the major names you’d expect to be there. Because the situation with children is that it’s very, very profitable for drug companies. If the children come in at quite young ages then the drug companies are able to delay puberty with drugs like Lupron… it’s off label. It is not approved for these purposes."

Jeffreys’s insights on transgender politics are fascinating, especially on medical harms for children. Listen here:

www.nationalreview.com/corner/sheila-jeffreys-radical-feminist-debunks-transgenderism/?fbclid=IwAR3UszPkBG-uV3TLe8PM8u_7ZF1ZNXN4X3TLTJdTWz6KitlOGzjsDlPGLJg

And you can sign the declaration on women's sex based rights here:

www.womensdeclaration.com

R0wantrees · 24/03/2019 10:36

Dr Julia Long's speech (WNTT Speakers' Corner event 2017) with feminist analysis about the history and importance of women being able to name men as men, identify male behaviours and patriarchal power is available:

pastebin.com/nGwr3i4U

transcribed by PencilsinSpace

current thread discussing the forcible removal by police & security guards of Dr Long and a small group of women from a corporate 'inclusivity' event hosted by Accenture:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/a3539529-Lesbians-removed-from-Accenture-inclusive-trans-event-by-7-police-officers

R0wantrees · 25/03/2019 20:32

This looks to be a very useful resource by a great writer and commentator.

la scapigliata:
"Recommended
Here is an evolving list of articles and videos I most often recommend. I hope you enjoy them.:

lascapigliata8.wordpress.com/recommended/

Break it down for me?
MsMarvellous · 10/04/2019 17:26

@Datun your post from the very start of this thread should be sent out to every MP that there is so some of them may actually start to understand the issue on a starter level to encourage them to read further and truly understand that women's concerns aren't about transsexuals (the first cohort) but firmly rooted in the concerns about the threat from the second cohort.

I'm so pleased this was posted today I'd not read this before.

NevareBurvelle · 15/04/2019 20:48

To all the posters on this thread, I want to thank you from the bottom of my bitter and twisted soul. DH and I had a blazing row last night over this topic after he casually mentioned that Mermaids were coming into his work to advise the company on trans policy. He just doesn't get it, thinks I am being hysterical Angry. And told me so, in front of my brother and his partner, who both completely get it and have been onside for months. I have achieved zero work today, but thanks to this amazing thread, I now have a long list of bookmarks and articles to share with him.

I am a serial name changer, occasional poster, and daily reader of this section.

PencilsInSpace · 15/04/2019 21:03

Have you got the recent Times articles, Nevare?

This is the most relevant to Mermaids:

Families ‘exploited by gender lobby groups pushing for treatment’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/families-exploited-by-gender-lobby-groups-pushing-for-treatment-5fddvml8r?shareToken=600a441fa789ca9dd56fb5035b0d706c

The others are also relevant:

Calls to end transgender ‘experiment on children’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/calls-to-end-transgender-experiment-on-children-k792rfj7d?shareToken=83b7bc8f95c2019f5b3543175f65d3f6

It feels like conversion therapy for gay children, say clinicians

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2?shareToken=798accd57047b7f1948f039b2561c2c1

Doubts over evidence for using drugs on the young

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/doubts-over-evidence-for-using-drugs-on-the-young-2vk26hrvx?shareToken=c9f7037a88d1de6088c86216663fc4ef

OhHolyJesus · 15/04/2019 21:05

Probably outing Nev but where does your DH work? I'm increasingly concerned about the reach of Mermaids training and how it seems to be delivering the ideology to private companies as well as the Police.

Honestly they just be coining it in as they always seem busy simply based on the number of MNers who mention it!

Transphobia is so often compared to homophobia but no one was training companies on how to welcome gay people in as employees or how to treat lesbians who work for them in the 70s/80s/90s.

Or were they and we didn't know?

NevareBurvelle · 15/04/2019 21:24

It is what I would call a midsize private company. But because of what they do has the potential to impact many other organizations if they get sucked in to the vortex. Oddly, he hasn't mentioned it this evening, and I am biding my time and then going to send him an article every couple of hours. Just got to decide which is the best to start with.

Unfortunately, he is utterly opposed to anything from the Times because 'Murdoch'. Ordinarily, I would agree with him. So I have had to sift out the recent articles, but thanks for sharing anyway.

OhHolyJesus · 15/04/2019 21:46

Nev, this is the best link I've got on Mermaids, it's probably been mentioned already so apologies if it's a repeat. It collates everything (almost everything) in one place.

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1075052199921807360.html

There's been more since but it might be useful. There's certainly no shortage of stuff to share, you're probably wading through treacle with it now so hope I haven't contributed to the mess!

R0wantrees · 16/04/2019 12:05

16/4/2019
Unherd article by Julie Bindel:
'The birth of the transsexual empire
One woman saw the trans bullies coming'
(extract)
“Transsexualism has taken only twenty-five years to become a household word,” reads the opening line of the 1979 book, The Transsexual Empire: The Making of the She-Male. The author, Janice Raymond, a renowned academic and feminist campaigner, caused a massive kerfuffle when she published the work, which seriously tackled the theory and consequences of diagnosing the feelings of body dysphoria and the unbearable desire to live and present as the opposite sex.

Raymond wrote TTE as a response to the rising rates of sex-change surgery in the US. She had long been concerned about the medical practices that negatively impacted women, such as unnecessary hysterectomies and caesareans. This led her to question the medical consequences of the bodily mutilation inherent in transsexual surgery, and the detrimental effects of taking lifelong hormones.

She predicted that the handful of gender identity clinics treating adult transsexuals – the first of which opened in 1967 – would become what she calls ‘sex role control centers’ for so-called deviant female and male children. “Such gender identity centers are already being used for the treatment of designated child transsexuals,” she wrote, before arguing that these centres would proliferate.

There are now at least 40 such clinics treating children’s ‘gender dysphoria’ in the United States, and in England there are seven treating adults, and only one at present that specialises in under 18s, but with calls for more. This is in spite of concerns about the effects that such treatment might have on individuals legally considered too young to make most major life decisions.

MORE FROM THIS AUTHOR

How transgender turf wars put lives in danger
BY JULIE BINDEL

Small wonder, then, that 40 years after it was first published, TTE is perceived as an important foundation stone in gender critical feminist thinking." (continues)

concludes:
Four decades ago, Raymond saw how in a society obsessed with gender rules which determine how women and men should behave, that it would become easier and more acceptable to change bodies rather than behaviour. Did she also foresee how aggressive and demanding trans activists would eventually become, where ‘mis-gendering’ a trans person can be treated as a ‘hate crime’ and reported to police?

“Yes” she tells me. “I always suspected that transsexualism would change women’s lives in a way that would attempt to define us out of existence.”
unherd.com/2019/04/the-transsexual-empire/?=sideshare

Break it down for me?
Mumminmum · 16/04/2019 12:30

notthenewsinbriefs.wordpress.com/2017/11/26/when-womens-rights-are-notadebate/amp/?__twitter_impression=true This quote is the one sentence, that really stands out:"The crime stats for the UK show that trans people are actually less likely to be the victims of homicide than the perpetrators" The TIMs always claim the opposite.

R0wantrees · 16/04/2019 13:16

Also by Julie Bindel today,
Guardian,
'Why Andrea Dworkin is the radical, visionary feminist we need in our terrible times
She was labelled a man-hater, anti-sex and ugly. But she predicted both the ascent of Trump and #MeToo – and her unapologetic attitude is more relevant than ever'
(extract)
Dworkin despaired at what has come to be known as “lean-in feminism” which focuses on the ability of individual, privileged women to climb to the top, and always said that until women at the “bottom of the pile” were liberated, none of us could be. (cont.)

concludes:
"Our lengthy conversations, which I miss more with every passing year, would be full of laughter and passion, but always with the cloud of impending doom hovering. Dworkin got it so right when she told me, only months before she died: “Women will come back to feminism, because things are going to get far, far worse for us before they get better.”*
www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2019/apr/16/why-andrea-dworkin-is-the-radical-visionary-feminist-we-need-in-our-terrible-times?CMP=share_btn_tw

R0wantrees · 01/05/2019 10:32

recent thread, OP BessyK wrote:
"As the mother of a ROGD teen i'd like to share this documentary from Sweden (translated into English).
The Trans Train www.svtplay.se/video/22035454/uppdrag-granskning/uppdrag-granskning-sasong-20-the-trans-train?start=auto&tab=2019

thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3571009-Trans-Train

see also
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3573435-Swedish-national-council-of-medical-ethics-recommends-Swedish-government-investigates-treatment-of-GD-youth-Hormone-treatment-suspended

This important Swedish documentary (which features one of the senior medical whistleblowers about Tavistock) should be seen alongside similarly investigative & challenging documentaries in Uk & Holland.

'Transgender Regret - A Dutch Documentary'
Peach Yoghurt, "Not all transgender stories are about success. This Dutch docu shows the dark side of transition. A side that's not rare and needs to be talked about.

I don't take credits for this docu. It was on the Dutch public TV in December 2018.
I added English subtitles and my only purpose is to share it, so more people can see it."

BBC Panorama
25 Feb 2019: 'Trans Kids: Why Medicine Matters'
"More young people than ever are exploring their gender identity. Last year, two and a half thousand under-eighteens were referred to NHS England's gender identity clinics for support. Some are hoping to get access to potentially irreversible treatments as soon as they can. Doctors are divided about the best way to help."

"Dr Faye Kirkland investigates how much we understand about the care being offered to transgender children."

vimeo.com/304866757?cjevent=727437b96bf311e9832501280a180512

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3517453-Panorama-25-Feb-20-30hrs-Trans-Kids-Why-Medicine-Matters-Thread-title-edited-by-MNHQ

R0wantrees · 01/05/2019 11:27

apologies, link above is incorrect & goes the "Trans Kids It’s Time To Talk" (also an important piece of journalism)
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3430608-Stella-OMalley-Trans-Kids-Its-Time-To-Talk

This is the Panorama programme:

vimeo.com/319630224

Also still available on the BBC site:

www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0002tw1/panorama-trans-kids-why-medicine-matters

H/t OldCrone

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