If I am outwardly a white woman, to others, but born in Africa and identify as a black woman?

[SherlocksTripleLock]

Then why shouldn't the state recognise this? I am a British citizen, btw.

If transgenderism is recognised, why not trans-racialism? I have always felt my ethnic identity is more in line with where I was born.

Genuine question. I am wondering why there are rules for some, but not for others who feel 'different inside' as well.

I'm sure there are a multitude of scenarios of self-identifying individuals that wish to be recognised. Where does the buck stop?

banana some of Rachel's story resonates with me. I was born in an ex-colonial African country and was strongly encouraged by my family to follow white protocols.

Who's stopping you identifying as black African? I get your point, but have you ever been told officially that you can't?

I think OP is striking a pose to make a point.

If you are white, and born in Europe, how can you identify as black African? I’m not trying to be goady; I genuinely don’t get it. Because surely your experience of life is actually very different to someone who is black African?

“If you are male, and born with a penis, how can you identify a woman? I’m not trying to be goady; I genuinely don’t get it. Because surely your experience of life is actually very different to someone who is a woman?”

*as a woman

OP so if a black child was adopted by a white family and was exposed to the cultural and social environment of an ethnically white culture would that child, in your eyes, be white ? Do you think that child would be viewed as white by others?

I can, in some ways see what you are saying, that your cultural roots are not the same as your genetic roots. But by saying you are culturally one thing you are denying your genetic heritage.

Culture can be changed, you can't change your genes.

This makes me think of those stories you read of wild animals that have been domesticated and raised by dogs or similar and think they’re a dog even though they’re a sheep. It’s very much nurture over nature but biologically they’re still a sheep!

Do you eat, I don't know, mealie pap and braid your hair? Do you wear bright colours and, er, live in a mud hut (wracks brain for reductive, offensive stereotypes)?

If so you are definitely properly black. You should apply for a scholarship which is designed to support black people in some way.

Anyone who says you aren't black is a bigot

I worked worth a South African (Caucasian) woman who studied in the states. She applied for a scholarship ‘for africans’ (note nor race or colour) but was turned down because she was white.

I am mixed race enough that I would have been legally unable to marry in the USA pre the civil war, and that I'd have been in danger of a concentration camp end under Hitler. However I look 100% white European. I'm aware of and proud of my cultural heritage, but wouldn't dream of insisting I am black and appropriating an experience and a culture I don't have and can't possibly understand.

It's interesting that one position is utterly taboo (thankfully) and the other not only isn't, but people are issuing threats if you don't also stand aside and say 'please co-opt my position.'

It's good we care (more) about not offending people who have been treated so badly historically but why can't we care more about women?

Samewitches the NHS - and other medical bodies - say they don't recognise ethnic dysphoria, neither is there/will there be funds for 'ethnic change' surgery as it's not a recognised condition. I've been able to tan my skin darker, dye and curl my hair. I have thought about having my facial features changed and buttock implants to match my inward identity, but cannot afford to have those done.

I have not yet approached any governmental body to request official recognition of my ethnic self-identity. I feel for legal reasons they are justified in their decision not to, as biologically I am white, even though I have gone to some lengths to change this and feel intrinsically that I am a black African woman. I do hold onto a hope that that trans-racialism will one day reach equal recognition as transgenderism has in its current form.

I do acknowledge that I cannot force my self-identity on others, I only ask people accept me for me, because I realise there are ramifications for others if I force my self-identity to be officially changed without scrutiny.

Fekko I have experienced almost exactly the same discrimination as you describe.

Outwardly to British people I look white, but I am not. I self-identify as black African.

Agh sorry about the multiple posts. I checked repeatedly after each one and nothing had posted! Must be some issue with my laptop/ browser.

It’s no more crazy than someone identifying as the opposite sex IMO. Therapy is the way to go.

Well, let's give thanks to African regions peoples who migrated into European regions around 30,000 years ago. Without them, there would be no Europeans. Mixed in with a bit of Neanderthal as well, basically at this time, Europeans were mainly Neanderthal.

When is anyone's legal ethnicity noted anywhere? Birth certificate? No. Passport? No. Driving licence? No.

Nice try OP.

Identify as who or what you want, just don't go demanding access to BME scholarships and the like.

Buttock implants? Give over.

I'm a member of a lefty women's group that tore Dolezal to shreds - apparently race isn't a costume you can take on and off. I would absolutely agree.

But in the same group, anyone supporting the recent GoFundMe has been removed from the group. Anyone who questions the trans agenda is labelled a TERF and removed. Gender fluidity is wholly supported - so apparently womanhood IS a costume you can take on and off.

I find the cognitive dissonance staggering.

OP, I appreciate that due to your upbringing you may identify more with black people than white people. However, you must acknowledge that you have enormous privilege over those people, and you can present as white any time you choose, which is an option they don't have?

I feel a very strong affinity with French culture. I would absolutely love to be French. I spent a lot of time there in my childhood. But I'm not. I recognise the difference between feeling that I am French and wishing that I were, and I would be insane if I thought my documentation should be changed to present me as French.

Well this has taken a turn I wasn't expecting! I thought you were making a point about transgender people and saying that if a man could identify as a woman without issue you should be able to do the same?!

At some point in the womb you became either male or female. It is perfectly possible for there to be some kind of genetic or hormonal mix up and to be born in the wrong body, so to speak.

This doesn't apply to race. There is no point where a fetus become white or black. That is an inherited trait based on your parents.

To draw parallels between the two is ridiculous.

At some point in the womb you became either male or female. It is perfectly possible for there to be some kind of genetic or hormonal mix up and to be born in the wrong body, so to speak.

Oh is there? Really? How does that work then?

DH went to school with some twins like this.

nypost.com/2017/09/05/meet-the-black-and-white-twins-that-baffle-everyone/

I was born in a 'shithole country

I was born a woman

God damn, it's bad

Try harder you lot