More women looking at porn.

[MarquisDeCarabas]

Victory for female empowerment or treasonous complicity in the sex industry? What think you?

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/jan/15/porn-women-web-searches-female-sexuality-50-shaphy-women-desire-exploitation-powerful-role-sexuality

"I mean, in some ways I do agree with you. Honestly. A more feminised society would be more civilised. No two ways about that.

What you've got to be wary of is this idea that if you give women power then they'll just carry on being all caring and good just as they were when they were at home looking after kids and doing embroidery. Part of the reason why women are so much nicer is that they DON'T have the same power and agency as men. "

You are still attached to this very binary view of masculine /feminine.

Who thinks women are "all caring and good"? No-one other than you, I think? The masculine would then be "uncaring and bad" which clearly is not the case for all men!

I would also question whether women are "so much nicer than men" that feels like an odd thing to say.

You need to try to stop seeing masculine and feminine as real actual things, and accept that people are people, and are all different, irrespective of whether they are male or female. That human beings are capable of a wide range of behaviours and attitudes both personally and when constrained by society whether through laws or convention. Then you need to think, well we build a society / world together, what do we want that to look like?

Words can’t express how angry the idea that the reason some feminist are anti porn is because we are prudes makes me. It’s not the same as being a musician but we’re just too puritanical to be able to see that, I’m not whinging because I think penises are icky.
Porn is damaging for women (and men but let’s focus on the women here) because it normalises a kind of sex that is violent, centres the male pleasure, objectifies women. The message that ‘all men watch porn’ and it’s normal again places the idea that men’s orgasms are more important than women’s boundaries and bodies. When you watch porn you are contributing to an industry which uses and abuses young women.
I think that there ARE probably ethical porn makers but they are not in the majority by a long shot.

My friend is a sexual health worker and she says she sees girls as young as 14 who have injuries to their anuses due to copying things they think are normal sexual practises that is expected of them.

In an ideal world porn wouldn’t be a problem but I think in an ideal world where there was equality between the sexes then the porn wouldn’t look like it looks now.

But, again, you are insisting that all porn is about violence, which is complete nonsense. There are many different 'stories' in porn and many different types of porn.
It's fine not to like sexually explicit entertainment (just as it's fine not to like sex/be asexual). But different people like different things.

And, like I said, the problem with Pornhub is that they blatantly rip off independent/ethical producers by stealing their work and profiting from it, which prevents the ethical producers (and their performers) from earning money.

I really don't see a difference between sex-as-performance and performing music. Both are things people may do for their own pleasure and may choose to do to entertain others.

siggggh

If you really believe that the majority of women in porn do it because they enjoy it then I don’t really know what to say.

The fact that there might be some ‘ethical porn’ out there doesn’t really change anything because you don’t really know when you’re watching it who consented to what.
I’m sure there’s some porn that isn’t about violence, but it’s rare.

Who thinks women are "all caring and good"? No-one other than you, I think? The masculine would then be "uncaring and bad" which clearly is not the case for all men!

I DON'T think women are all caring and good. They're just socialised to be. If they had equal power to men, they may very well not be.

You need to try to stop seeing masculine and feminine as real actual things, and accept that people are people, and are all different, irrespective of whether they are male or female. That human beings are capable of a wide range of behaviours and attitudes both personally and when constrained by society whether through laws or convention. Then you need to think, well we build a society / world together, what do we want that to look like?

I'm not quite sure what we're arguing about, because I completely agree with the above. The only thing I would say is that there are behaviours and traits that are - very, very generally - more common in women than men and vice versa. But I want to make the point very strongly that these are NOT innate, biologically determined characteristics - they are the result of socialisation.

And I agree that socialisation is really important - but I think that certain biological factors are at play and males need more specific socialisation about not sticking their dicks where it is not wanted, for example.

Another thing I found really disappointing is about cats - I know this is a shit study - but I notice that the biggest male pushes the other cats out of the cat bowl to eat the majority of the food. Castrating him does lessen the self-centred prickish behaviour, but it is still there. So I wonder if selfishness and greed around food, territory, etc needs to be successfully socialised out of human males too. This is a vague idea and I am on the fence about it.

What I do believe is that socialisation is extremely powerful, and when done right - you can barely recognise the lizard-brained brutes we are underneath it all.

It's not as bad as that GuardianLions! Humans are more successful than cats as a species because we're so much better at adapting our behaviour to the demands of a whole range of environments. We have basic drives like other mammals but much more flexibility in how they're expressed. We have a whole neocortex dedicated to this stuff even men do and a 25 year maturation period because our behaviour is so much less hardwired.

Also I think on the whole men are actively socialised to be rapey at the moment. I'm not sure we need to be training them out of it so much as to stop training them into it. Through porn, for example.

I actually find that post reassuring - you are right. Bonobos, to look at a different species are very different to cats -and much closer to us. (although the males still do act like dickheads - it just doesn't get them very far in bonobo culture and they back down).

This OP reminds me of one from a while back who was very invested in arguing that women, were they to have the power in society that men currently do, would sexually abuse children and be domestic abusers at the same rate men do/are now. A very odd agenda, really.

I don't think they'd be domestic abusers to the same extent, simply because they lack the physical power.

But why wouldn't they molest children?

I would imagine that the female sexual abuse of children is vastly in excess of what we imagine it to be. It's such a taboo that it simply isn't acknowledged.

Ah well Dixie you are probably right looking at this turn...

Are you seriously suggesting women don't interfere with children?

That's absurd.

And I didn't make the turn.

Dixie - yes 100% - and point proven with the recent posts.

No-one has said that women are incapable of molesting children.

HTH.