Is it legal for a man to use the women's toilet in England? Scotland?

[SerciteEland]

If not, can someone please point me to where I can find text of the law regulating this? I've tried searching here to no avail: www.legislation.gov.uk/search

I was always under the impression that it WAS illegal for a man to enter the women's room but now I'm not so sure and it seems a rather hard thing to search for.

I assume it must be since apparently a reading of the 2010 Equality Act has been invoked to allow transgender women to use the women's room. www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-36395646

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/19

But I can't seem to find the original law prohibiting men from being in the ladies'.

Further, I've only really started to pay attention to the trans issue within the last few years (first as an ally from 2011-2014 and thereafter becoming progressively more and more gender critical after hitting peak trans in 2014/15) and I somehow entirely missed that it's now apparently legal for trans women to be in the women's bathrooms. Does anyone have links to good information on how this happened (focused on the UK)? And have there been any documented abuses of it so far?

She was post op and had a grc: the court found in favour of the claimant. So to answer the threads question, trans women can use women's toilets.

That was a more complicated case than how you are representing it. The MTF person was banned from the pub which is more clear cut discrimination. Plus there is going to be a higher bar for GRC holders and for people who have had surgery, on a case by case basis.

You may be interested to know that the EHRC actually removed the text saying that a trans person could not be asked to use another toilet than the sex they identified as from one of their guidance documents for service providers, following pressure from feminist groups in 2018.

Plus there is going to be a higher bar for GRC holders and for people who have had surgery, on a case by case basis.

Is there? How would anyone know about those things when they see someone who looks male going into a women's toilet?

Also, there was a case 6 years ago when a trans woman was ejected from the women's toilets in a pub. She was post op and had a grc: the court found in favour of the claimant.

That case was decided in this way because EHRC statutory guidance (which has legal force) misrepresented the Equality Act provisions. The EHRC have since quietly changed the parts of the guidance in question and it is highly unlikely that the case would have the same outcome now.

So to answer the threads question, trans women can use women's toilets.

No. As per your own words directly above, the only males who could possibly be considered to be legally allowed into a female-only facility are those who have a GRC, ie whose legal sex is now female.

Males who identify as trans, who are not in possession of a GRC (in other words, males whose legal sex remains male), have no right whatsoever to use female-only facilities.

I have a trans daughter and she has been using the women's toilets for years without incident.

Why do you think that might be?

I wonder if a bathroom bill would pass in the UK. It was good enough for North Carolina and possibly other states.

Libfem37 if you want your posts to stand, I suggest you read the mod’ing sticky at the top of FWR.

I doubt a FWR poster will report you for posting infractions, but a bored board monitor might.

I have a trans daughter and she has been using the women's toilets for years without incident. She will continue to do so despite the best efforts of bigoted Terfs like you. Fuck you're hatred.

Didn't take long for you to show your true colours, did it?

Is there? How would anyone know about those things when they see someone who looks male going into a women's toilet?

Realistically, if and when a discrimination case comes to court. those things are likely to be considered as a factor in whether a service provider could reasonably exclude the male person from a toilet, even though the service provider is unlikely to know about these things and they aren't required for "gender reassignment" under the EA. Legal experts have said this.

The service provider is risking litigation/fines etc. The exemption is there and if women's rights to privacy and dignity were considered more important it would mean that anyone obviously male could be excluded whether they possibly had a GRC or not. But realistically, at this moment in time, they aren't considered as important as a "genuine" MTF trans person's right to "live as a woman".

This is a significant problem with the legislation and it's why Stonewall etc and up to a point the EHRC have gone about saying that an MTF trans person legally cannot be excluded from female toilets.This is a lie, but in reality the law makes it difficult to do so.

I think other women's spaces are more clear cut. Changing rooms where people are naked for instance. Gyms where people need to register so they could be asked for a birth certificate and then excluded from female only spaces and services.

“ Good grief, people still say "haters"?”

Yep!

“Haters gonna hate” 🙄 All over MLM groups, it is. Good for the brainwashing...

You are legally entitled to set aside spaces for women but how, as the space owner, are these legally enforced? (Assuming asking someone to leave doesn’t work). Would it have to be trespass in which case civil action? Presumably as a space user you could claim harassment against the space owner, and possibly sex discrimination?

Would've been a teenagers weird dream

There has never actually been a law prohibiting trans women from the women's toilet. We went from no clear answer to explicitly allowed in 1999 (and then again in 2010)

Zombie thread.