I'm not beautiful...is that ok?

[TheHodgeHeg]

I'm having a dilemma about how to feel about my appearance and would love your opinions, as feminists, on this issue.

Like many women I struggle with low self esteem. When I look at myself in the mirror on a low day I see a spotty face, crooked teeth, big nose etc. etc.

I recognise that my pre-occupation with my appearance is, at least in part, a product of our patriarchal society which values beauty above every other characteristic in a woman. Heroines in books, films, TV shows etc are generally beautiful and sure maybe they're also funny and intelligent but beauty matters above everything. I'm sure this has skewed my perspective of myself.

My usual tactic when I'm feeling down is to tell myself that, no, I am beautiful, and think back to times when someone has complimented me. I'm not sure that this is productive though and I worry that it just perpetuates the cycle that beauty is absolutely paramount and a non-negotiable quality that a woman must have.

It would surely be better for me to accept that I'm not beautiful and that's ok. I accept other failings in my character and such failings don't rule my head as much as this one does (e.g. not being as funny as a comedian, as rich or driven as a CEO etc.)

I do find this attitude difficult to reconcile with how I'd parent any future daughter though. It really messed me up that my parents told me I wasn't pretty whilst praising the looks of my sister and other kids. But surely the philosophy that they were applying was what I'm trying to come to terms with now.

God, society (and my self esteem) are fucked up. I would want to tell any future daughter that she's beautiful but at the same time I want to break the cycle that beauty matters so much. I'm not sure the actions of one person in the face of overwhelming resistance from society is productive though. My parents actions were the opposite of productive for me and I think they've left me very confused.

When you look at your child op, do you not think she is beautiful?

Self esteem comes from knowing from an early age that you are valued and loved, not from knowing or believing that you are pretty. Prettiness only comes into it if a child has been given a message that her prettiness (or lack of it) is the reason she is valued and loved (or considered less valuable and loveable)

This is a very one dimensional view and due to that not accurate. Why? Because you can be valued and loved for who you are, and also know and be told you are clever, smart, beautiful, kind and funny.

It is not if you're pretty that's why you're loved. End of. This is very wrong. Who tells their child I only love you because you're pretty? You'd have to be very warped indeed.

You are loved for who you are, but being told your smart, clever, beautiful, kind and acknowledging your child's positive attributes is a huge self esteem boost for anyone.

Maybe instead of focusing on the feminist side of this, you should address the core problem -your poor self esteem.

But poor self esteem amongst many women and girls is down to the ever present societal message that they aren’t pretty enough.

So it IS a feminist issue.

Nope. Real self esteem is about knowing that I am a valuable, loveable human being even if I'm not particularly clever, beautiful, or outstandingly good at anything compared to everyone else.

That was to Bluntness

And telling a woman “but you are beautiful” is just reinforcing the idea that looks are what she should be aiming for.

Self esteem doesn’t come from praise.

As someone else said, it comes from trust.

When people trust in you, your choices, your abilities their actions are proving that you have good qualities.

Praise is nice and all, but it’s part of building a relationship between two people, not self esteem.

And who amongst us doesn't feel secretly great given a compliment?

You look great today, have you don't something with your hair?

That's a gorgeous jacket , the colour really suits you, your whole face looks glowing.

Is that a new lipstick, you really suit it, you look really pretty.

Why would denying your own child that be something that you consider doing? As said, it's not a case that's all you compliment, but why ignore their appearance and only praise their intelligence or something.

No one can really think the person who is brought up like this will grow up to have huge self esteem about their level of attractiveness, and no human being goes through their teens and twenties thinking their attractiveness is unimportant and all that matters is their mum and dad love them.

I'm not beautiful either. I'm quirky and interesting looking. There's a lot to be said for being your best self though - clean and well dressed, teeth sorted by a dentist, fit and not overweight, dye grey hair if necessary and get a haircut, etc. You don't have to be beautiful to make an effort to be your best self.

Dd2 completely eschews femininity. It makes me a little sad,

Why does it make you feel sad? Mine does also- but I feel extraordinarily proud of her for being true to herself and not following the crowd. The last thing i’d feel is sad.

*And who amongst us doesn't feel secretly great given a compliment?

You look great today, have you don't something with your hair?

That's a gorgeous jacket , the colour really suits you, your whole face looks glowing.

Is that a new lipstick, you really suit it, you look really pretty*

Actually, I don’t. And each one of those comments refers to something I have done or changed- implying that my natural self isn’t “good enough”- I’m not pretty without lipstick, or my hair yesterday was terrible...I’d take comments like that as insults, personally. Say you like my jacket, fine, but don’t infer I have improved myself with external trappings.

@Bellamuerte that only works if you agree that not having grey hair is better than having grey hair! Well-dressed is subjective, as are haircuts. Nothing particularly wrong with being a bit overweight, although clearly it's better for your health to be fit and not very overweight.

Nope. Real self esteem is about knowing that I am a valuable, loveable human being even if I'm not particularly clever, beautiful, or outstandingly good at anything compared to everyone else

But why is it one or the other to you? Why do you feel that knowing you're a valuable, loveable human being who is also smart intelligent and beautiful to you a bad thing?

You can be both you know. You can feel you're both. There is nothing wrong with knowing your worth, for bringing up a child who believes in themselves. There is everything wrong in bringing up a child who thinks they are"not very beautiful, clever or good at anything in comparison to everyone else"

I’d take comments like that as insults, personally. Say you like my jacket, fine, but don’t infer I have improved myself with external trappings

That's one of the saddest things I've read on here. And beyond weird to say it's meant you've improved yourself and to see a compliment as an insult. 😔

There's a lot to be said for being your best self though - clean and well dressed, teeth sorted by a dentist, fit and not overweight, dye grey hair if necessary and get a haircut, etc. You don't have to be beautiful to make an effort to be your best self.

Why is “best self” looks specific? Should I think someone above is “better” than someone with grey hair and slightly wonky teeth? You are still judging and giving credence to the appearance is the most valuable asset thinking.

I have wonky teeth, and have no intention of dying my hair. i am also two stone overweight. I have worked for many years at the bench in cancer research. My looks bear no relation to my abilities. But if you think I’d be a better version of myself by changing my appearance, when I don’t actually want to....

I quite often want to tell people they are much prettier without all the lipstick/ make up/hd brows etc.

But that wouldn’t be taken as a compliment would it?

I tell my children they are gorgeous and beautiful. I tell them to dress and be, whatever makes them happy. I tell them if I like their outfit, or hairstyle etc.

But I also tell them how clever they are, what good ideas they have, how kind they are, how funny they are, how much common sense they have etc.

I also remind them, that looks fade or things can happen in life where looks are affected, and all you are left with is you. Don’t neglect your personality in favour of looks. And don’t neglect your physical self either....be healthy, exercise etc

Not easy though. Hoping I’ve got it right. I had appalling self esteem as a child and teen. And I was always being called ‘pretty’ by others.

My looks bear no relation to my abilities

No ones looks bear any relation to their abilities. That's an odd thing to say. Looks are just one facet of us as humans.

I quite often want to tell people they are much prettier without all the lipstick/ make up/hd brows etc.>

But that wouldn’t be taken as a compliment would it?

Well no, because it’s a bit like telling someone in a bright orange dress ‘oh you’d look much better in a muted brown’

Maybe a more natural look might make them look more attractive to you / most people. But maybe they like orange. In which case I say wear the orange!

But somehow i am a “better” version of myself if I dye my hair and lose some weight?

How exactly does it do that? It doesn’t improve my abilities or personality as you say. So how does changing my looks make me a better version of myself?

You’re basically saying I am worth more if I conform to societies idea of a woman’s beauty.

I suppose I mean making an effort to look your best in whatever style you choose, rather than just not making an effort at all. Trimmed hair rather than dead ends, styled as you choose rather than just not bothered with. Clean clothes in a good state of repair, not stained or out of shape. If you have grey hair then have it because you've chosen it, not just because you can't be bothered to do anything with your hair.

Some people couldn't care less about their appearance and that's up to them. But I still think most people have higher self esteem (and appear more attractive to others) when they've made the best of themselves.

But somehow i am a “better” version of myself if I dye my hair and lose some weight?

How exactly does it do that? It doesn’t improve my abilities or personality as you say. So how does changing my looks make me a better version of myself?

You’re basically saying I am worth more if I conform to societies idea of a woman’s beauty.

So why is not ok to tell someone that they look much prettier today without lipstick.

But it is a compliment to say you look much prettier today with lipstick?

To me it’s the same thing.

You’re basically saying I am worth more if I conform to societies idea of a woman’s beauty

This is an odd take and a deliberate misunderstanding I think. The posters comment was clearly not made in relation to worth. Simply as humans, men and women, our self esteem rises and we feel more confident when we look better.

You personally may be one of the rare humans who places no value whatsoever in your personal attractiveness or how you present, but I think you'd have to live under a rock to know that across the whole species good grooming and attractiveness is considered one of many valuable assets,

For me, no I don't feel great with my hair a mess, scruffy clothes on, being overweight, eye bags and sallow skin on full display. There is no glory in looking shit.

I wouldn’t make either comment really.

I might say oh your lipstick is a nice shade, where did you get it - but then I’m complimenting the choice, not how it makes them look, if you see what I mean. I compliment make up / clothing choices in the way I compliment home decor. That’s a nice shade / these two things compliment each other, etc. I don’t pass comment on someone’s actual face and whether it looks better or worse today. I think it’s a bit rude to tbh.

I am what is considered beautiful. I am also 46. I am actually finding getting older very difficult because I am aware that my looks are fading slightly.
I'm also clever and funny and crap at loads of stuff like most of us but 'Ive spent 30 years turning heads and it's hard when that starts to change.

Not good OR bad, just a shift.