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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Mermaids

86 replies

BelaLugosisShed · 03/01/2018 09:54

I’m blocked by them but someone posted this by them last night. Note that they are being deliberately vague, but to me at least, the implication of suicides is there.

4 deaths in 6 months opposed to one officially documented Trans child suicide in 10 years ? - something is off here.

OP posts:
Original poster
BelaLugosisShed · 03/01/2018 09:55

Sorry, here it is

Mermaids
OP posts:
Lonelytree · 03/01/2018 09:59

Yeah they don’t have any concrete stats so they’re just resorting to this now. I hope 2018 is the year that the transing of children is finally exposed as child abuse.

CrazyDuchess · 03/01/2018 10:01

Yes... it's really difficult to get a recorded verdict of suicide..... what's your point?

Datun · 03/01/2018 10:10

It doesn't say suicide?

It could be anything. Natural causes.

If it was suicide, surely they would say so.

Thermostatpolice · 03/01/2018 10:17

it's really difficult to get a recorded verdict of suicide.

CrazyDuchess - really? Is this particularly the case with young people? I have (thankfully) very little experience of this.

TunaSushi · 03/01/2018 10:25

If half their community is made up of people on the autistic spectrum it's not surprising, ASC is associated with a life expectancy of 40 years.

MaidOfStars · 03/01/2018 10:27

If it was suicide, surely they would say so
Yep.

It’s a report that four young people have died. There’s no info other then that, and that’s quite telling.

If they had even one suicide (formally recorded or merely reported as possible), they’d be all over it.

It’s propoganda.

MomToWedThorFriday · 03/01/2018 10:37

I know of at least one suicide of a teen who identified as Trans (female to male). It was suicide. They were trans. Don’t whitewash people’s reality!

MomToWedThorFriday · 03/01/2018 10:37

That was in 2017.

Datun · 03/01/2018 10:43

MomToWedThorFriday

Leo Etherington is the one I'm aware of. Was it him?

I don't think anyone wants to minimise the suicide of a child. That would be awful. They want to stop the pressure groups manipulating statistics to shore up an ideology.

Something that contravenes the Samaritans guidelines on every level.

Unfortunately that takes the form of having to look at suicide statistics.

ClareCAIS · 03/01/2018 10:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

MomToWedThorFriday · 03/01/2018 10:48

No, Datun. A different lad - son of a friend.

LangCleg · 03/01/2018 10:56

I don't doubt that trans identification can be at the root of devastating mental ill health in children, including suicidal ideation right up to, God forbid, actual suicide. As do many other issues in and around adolescence. Suicidal ideation is at an all-time high in young people, particularly girls.

That doesn't mean it's ok for Mermaids to weaponise children's trauma in dangerous ways that spread contagion and contravene Samaritans guidelines.

This tweet begs two questions in me:

  1. why were these four recent suicides not reported? I don't believe that we would not have heard about them.

  2. is the help Mermaids offers not actually helping? Perhaps there are better ways to support GNC kids than rushing them into affirmation and medication?

MomToWedThorFriday · 03/01/2018 10:58

  1. You haven’t heard about my friends son, but he definitely existed, identified as trans and completed suicide.

  2. Mermaids are shit.

LangCleg · 03/01/2018 11:10

MomToWedThorFriday - if you don't mind my asking, was Mermaids involved with your friend's child?

TunaSushi · 03/01/2018 11:13

Mom Flowers

Datun · 03/01/2018 11:15

MomToWedThorFriday

I'm terribly sorry to hear that. How devastating.

There is always this dreadful conflict. Trying to stop pressure groups manipulating suicide statistics, whilst desperately not wanting to minimise suicide.

And yes, mermaids are shit.

We have had several ex mermaids members on here all saying the same. The 'our way or the highway' narrative seems very damaging.

SuburbanRhonda · 03/01/2018 11:23

Mermaids are referenced for “further information and support” in every document for schools about transgender issues that I’ve ever seen Angry

ALunerExplorer · 03/01/2018 11:30

First: whilst the statistics are not yet publically available for 2017 in terms of confirmed suicides, (and therefore in terms of dealing in fact, I shall refrain from comment), but the statistics for 2016 are publically available.

In 2016:

10 -14 yrs of age - persons 0.1%, male 0.2%
15 - 19 yrs of age - persons 5.3%, male 7.5%, females 2.9%
(Please note use of the term persons)

You can that for yourselves here:

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/suicidesintheunitedkingdom/2016registrations#suicides-in-the-uk-by-age

Stonewall released their 'School Report' last year, which is the result of the study they commissioned in 2016 into our LGBTQ youth, and their experience of life at school.

www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/the_school_report_2017.pdf

49% of trans youth reported attempting suicide. It is disheartening that people are reluctant to believe this.

Of course Mermaids are going to say nothing more than they have said. There are grieving families involved, whether you believe there are, or not.

ThatWasNotLove · 03/01/2018 11:41

AL I'm sorry** if this is a silly question. What is the definition of "persons" vs the binary genders? Is it meaning trans or is it meaning gender non-identifying? It's horrible to discuss this in the context of what the actual figures represent, but I'm not clear on what these definitions mean in that context. Are "females" people born into a female body and gender identifying as such, for example? Or is it by sex alone or gender alone?

ThatWasNotLove · 03/01/2018 11:41

No idea where the asterisks came from!

ALunerExplorer · 03/01/2018 11:46

I am so so sorry to hear of that. Sending love and solidarity.

LangCleg · 03/01/2018 11:55

Luner - unsure why you'd post overall stats? We all know that our kids are living in a period of stressors - trans identification included - so acute that youth suicide is on the rise. It's a terrible state of affairs.

I won't get into the methodology of the figure that Stonewall loves to quote since it has been debunked multiple times and because it seems tasteless. But I will say that the rates of suicidal ideation are similar for LGB kids (without the T), for bullied kids, for kids with other forms of dysphoria such as anorexia. Kids all over are feeling under such pressure that they have suicidal thoughts. It happened to my own son in his first year at university. Thank heavens he is ok now.

The problem with Mermaids is that they associate these alarming figures with their lobbying for affirmation only clinicial protocols - the "better a trans kid than a dead kid" thing, which has no basis in research. That's what people are objecting to.

I genuinely believe that one day Mermaids are going to be embroiled in a scandal that will dwarf the Kids Company debacle. Mermaid has to be the most unethical lobby group I have ever encountered. Even parents who support early medical intervention should stay well away from them.

ALunerExplorer · 03/01/2018 12:04

" But I will say that the rates of suicidal ideation are similar for LGB kids (without the T), for bullied kids, for kids with other forms of dysphoria such as anorexia."

Oh I am very much aware of that. I have also been hugely concerned by the rise of suicide rates in girls.

But the post was about suicide in trans youth. It isn't Mermaids who are weaponising the situation.

sleighbellend · 03/01/2018 12:07

I think you’d probably have had similar, if not higher, figures if all the teens who identified as emos or goths 10 years ago had been surveyed.