Mermaids

[BelaLugosisShed]

I’m blocked by them but someone posted this by them last night. Note that they are being deliberately vague, but to me at least, the implication of suicides is there.

4 deaths in 6 months opposed to one officially documented Trans child suicide in 10 years ? - something is off here.

49% of trans youth reported attempting suicide. It is disheartening that people are reluctant to believe this.

I looked at your link, but I can't find the actual study. Can you post it?

Mermaids are responsible for disseminating the figure of 41 percent (I don't know where 49 has come from). But that figure was taken from a total of 27 people. A statistically insignificant example.

The thing that is make people very suspicious is that they implied it was taken from a sample of 2000. Deliberately manipulating the figures. But in fact it was only 27.

Why would anyone distort the suicide figures?

Samaritans are very clear about the way to handle suicide. To play it down. To not use it as any kind of leverage.

They are only too well aware of the social contagion that is prevalent on social media.

Mermaids go out of their way to ignore this advice in an effort to promote their agenda.

My question is why?

AL I'm sorry** if this is a silly question. What is the definition of "persons" vs the binary genders?

Persons is everyone.

15 - 19 yrs of age - persons 5.3%, male 7.5%, females 2.9%

(7.5 + 2.9)/2 = 5.2 (given rounding errors, this is the 5.3 persons figure)

So it's just 'males' and 'females' that are to be defined here, and on that, I don't know, although as these are youths/children none of them would have had a GRC.

(Please note use of the term persons)

Not sure what you're alluding to here luner - perhaps you misunderstood the graph - it doesn't mean 'neither male nor female', it means males + females.

I think it's becoming clear that there is overlap between trans-identifying children and children with severe distress from verifiable causes such as sexual abuse, autism, mental health difficulties or sexual identity.

As I understand it, it's not yet clear where the causes lie, and whether distress leads a child both to identify as trans and to feel suicidal. It's also unclear in what circumstances full, partial or complete lack of transition is the best option for long-term mental health.

I'm worried that the general tiptoeing around the subject and banning of all criticism will make this impossible to research.

I think it's becoming clear that there is overlap between trans-identifying children and children with severe distress from verifiable causes such as sexual abuse, autism, mental health difficulties or sexual identity.

YY. Not that the likes of Mermaids will admit that. They are utterly shit.

I genuinely believe that one day Mermaids are going to be embroiled in a scandal that will dwarf the Kids Company debacle. Mermaid has to be the most unethical lobby group I have ever encountered. Even parents who support early medical intervention should stay well away from them.

Totally agree.

I think that there needs to be

a. More openness from Mermaids about their methods

b. More research into their methods

Before money is piled in and they are quoted everywhere as experts in the field. Even NAS quotes them .

But this is not happening. It is an accident waiting to happen.

No one knows down the line what will happen. Transing young people may look positive to some people at first sight, but what happens when they are older 5 years, 10 years down the line when life goals change. We know that the highest suicide rate is in mid-life men so what happens transgirls when they reach midlife?

Where is the research?

Oh - and their marketing person has been urging people online to pile in and dis Heather Brunskell Evans book on Amazon without reading it. If this is the sort of thing they are prepared to do in public, then goodness knows how it is run behind closed doors.

Mermaids are appalling. You'd think after the Kids Company debacle public bodies would be a bit more careful about who they give their backing to.

Datun makes an excellent point about not using suicide as leverage and the danger of social media contagion. The fact that Mermaids are so deliberately flouting the Samaritans guidance is major cause for concern. (Along with all the other shit they peddle.)

Yes, that Helen person from mermaids, asking others on Twitter to negatively review that book (which they duly did). Surely that's illegal in some sense?

She's also really stupid with regards her use of social media. (I'm not going to say how as I don't want to be accused of doxxing). If that's how she protects her own privacy, I would wonder about the security of the information that Mermaids holds.

@terrylene The people who call it the trans cult aren't far wrong. That is creepy behaviour.

She's also really stupid with regards her use of social media. (I'm not going to say how as I don't want to be accused of doxxing

I could have sworn she had made her connection clear herself, on her Twitter resume, when she used to go under her own name. It had all changed, last time I looked.

They were ordered to stay away from that young boy in the trans case, by the judge. As he felt their influence was negative. They subsequently went on social media and called him ignorant, despite him being the foremost legal expert in transition and writing a forward for a same-sex marriage book.

Totally unprofessional. And desperate.

And is it owl or fox who represents them? He called homosexuality deviant. And tried desperately to refute the statistics on trans sex offenders, despite them being subsequently verified by the Ministry of Justice.

And they show up at pride marches with sweets and puppies. Not a good look.

49% of trans youth reported attempting suicide. It is disheartening that people are reluctant to believe this.

This was I believe a Stonewall report. They are very cagey about the methodology used but basically it involves an online survey being circulated and people who want to fill it in. There is no way of checking who filled it in, no control groups, no scientific rigour at all.

Plus using suicide to promote a cause in this way is against all suicide reporting guidelines.

Any person or organisation which endorses a binary 'transition successfully or die' ideology is morally culpable for child suicides. If those are the only two options you present to children, those WILL be the only two outcomes.

When do we hear of Mermaids encouraging children to accept their bodies as they are? How enthusiastically to they talk about desistance as an option, the most likely option? What do they have to say about affirming every child who believes they are trans?

If you lie to a child and locate their entire sense of self and happiness in how they are perceived by others, you are ensuring they are destined for lifelong unhappiness on the real world, or life in a cult-like bubble where reality is not allowed to intrude.

Children need to be presented with the truth and helped to accept their bodies and minds as they actually exist.

The report just linked says 45%, but as others have said:
Does not state the total
Does not eliminate other causes of suicidal thoughts (what other difficulties do these children have that are different from the general population)
Does not compare these children to those with other forms of body dysmorphia.

So, do those stats from Mermaids simply confirm that rates amongst trans kids are similar to rates amongst that age group, generally?
Or am I reading this all wrong?

Gah, I mean Stonewall.

So, do those stats from Mermaids simply confirm that rates amongst trans kids are similar to rates amongst that age group, generally?

Stats from Mermaids are not reliable and they misrepresent them.

Even so, if the stats from Mermaids are accurate, the figures they cite are comparable to those for other vulnerable groups within that age group generally.

The stonewall report had no verification or gatekeeping process to ensure the respondents were in fact school children. It was an online survey utterly open to abuse by anyone, adult or child, able and willing to complete the survey, multiple times if needed. Anyone with an agenda could submit a response, or several responses.
No one with any credibility would cite it as anything other than a prime example of how to contrive a false result.
A little like the false book reviews on Amazon for a book which has never been read.

3 years PACE commissioned a similar study of the rates of attempted suicide amongst trans youth. They had the % more or less the same as Stonewall, at 48%.

The rate of suicide attempt amongst trans youth is not news, its been known for sometime. (They also looked at the % who made a second attempt).

www.theguardian.com/society/2014/nov/19/young-transgender-suicide-attempts-survey

We also know that trans/GNC/gender questioning children are 82% less likely to attempt suicide if they have family and social support. Family and social rejection - that is, when family and society deny the identity the young person is expressing - is one of the biggest contributing factors to this high attempt rate.

This link is to some Canadian research bmcpublichealth.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12889-015-1867-2

Nor can we ignore that many of the arguments put forward by anti-trans activists deny agency and autonomy to young people. Some of the arguments I have heard put forward which best example this:

"trans boys are really butch lesbians" (just aside from how extremely uncomfortable I am with telling our children what their sexuality 'ought' to be)

"sudden onset gender dysphoria" (which started popping up in the summer) pathologies' children, as well denying them agency with a totally made up label for which I have been unable to find any peer reviewed, academic studies on by the way. It also denies agency and autonomy to trans/GNC/gender questioning children.

"transing our children" is not a thing in the same way that the gay mafia weren't trying to turn the children gay in the 80's and 90's. And it denies them agency.

I am merely suggesting that listening to these children - on the basis of them being autonomous human beings who are not actually little extensions of us - might be a better first step than slapping narrow pre-conceptions on them.

We also know that trans/GNC/gender questioning children are 82% less likely to attempt suicide if they have family and social support.

But support doesn't only or necessarily mean immediate affirmation and medicalisation, Luner. This conflation is what makes Mermaids so dangerous.

I am merely suggesting that listening to these children - on the basis of them being autonomous human beings.

Anything that undermines, at the very least, Gillick competence, Fraser guidelines and age of consent, is highly dangerous. It's been suggested before by some very unsavoury people. Again, a big problem with Mermaids. Ever heard of safeguarding?

If a biologically female child, who is exclusively attracted to other biological females, and who rejects feminine coded gender expectations erroneously believes that all of the above mentioned characteristics mean she is a trans boy, then she deserves the truth. That she is a lesbian.

What would you tell her luner? Would you affirm her mistake? Say that she mustn't have her misconception challenged?

Yes.

But then neither do I misunderstand the nature of the support that trans/GNC/gender questioning children and youths receive.

‘ (just aside from how extremely uncomfortable I am with telling our children what their sexuality 'ought' to be’

But you’re evidently ok with telling children they’re actually the wrong sex.