Language Matters

[KittyPerry77]

I was reading this medium.com/@burntoakboy/on-topshop-e01f5db6ecd
and it sounds very persuasive as to why males shouldn't change with young girls until the counter argument of where the poor 14 year old transgirl is meant to go so it got me thinking should we try to start using transsexual and transvestite again rather than transgender? I mean isn't that the problem? Examples of difficulties are given about the 40 something no hormones, no op male and the rebuttal is always about the adolescent transgirl who wants to transition.
This debate has really made me see the power of language. Also, I think we should say transgendered male for transwomen and transgendered female for transmen.

You're right, but why should 14 year old girls have to change with 14 year old biological males? They're using those arguments on you because you're trying to be understanding and it's a guilt trip. They know within a few seconds that they don't work on people like me. And I never ever call them women or girls.

Agree that language is important.

With regard to the example though, I think we need to be allowed to discuss a few things:

• why a young male of 14 years old thinks he is a girl at all.
• why he is being encouraged to think girls' privacy in sex-segregated changing areas should be ignored to accommodate his feelings.
• non-transitioned transgirl still equals male biological boy. Male biological bodies belong in the male changing areas. If he had actually medically transitioned, that might be a different situation but no 14 year old should be going through transition at such an age anyway, that is child abuse

so it got me thinking should we try to start using transsexual and transvestite again rather than transgender?

I really agree with this.

I agree with going back to making the distinction between transsexuals and tranvestites, it's fairly recently I realised they'd all been lumped in together which is what is causing the current problems.

With regards to 14 year olds I find that example very simple, basic safeguarding says you seperate that age group by SEX anything else is beyond batshit and I can't see why it would even be a discussion.

I too agree with making a distinction. Transsexual and transvestite.

Miranda Yardley wrote a piece on her blog, ‘where have all the transvestites gone’.

Because they are now transgender. Hijacking the narrative of transsexuals to legitimise what is a fetish.

The fact that Travis dresses up as a 15-year-old girl and has a best friend who has called little girls kinky and deviant demonstrates a real need to start making distinctions.

The transgender teenagers in DD's year change in the staff loos. That works for all concerned.

But they are natal females and concerned mostly with passing under the radar. They don't, as far as I know, push to be allowed into the boys' changing rooms.

I'd be interested to know whether transmen and transboys in general support the idea of using sex-based or gender-based changing facilities or a third option.

I'd be interested to know whether transmen and transboys in general support the idea of using sex-based or gender-based changing facilities or a third option.

Me too Lancelottie why aren't we're hearing from them?

Though there was this article recently:

www.google.co.uk/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2016/05/05/uk-gym-banned-trans-man-from-using-mens-changing-rooms/amp/

The mind boggles that this is now considered an unreasonable statement: was told that because I have breasts and a vagina I could only use the female facilities.”

So it does seem that there are also men who don't want woman in their changing rooms, and why should they? Though the minority who object to GNC males in their changing rooms do need to be educated.

Lancelottie: "But they are natal females and concerned mostly with passing under the radar. They don't, as far as I know, push to be allowed into the boys' changing rooms."

Of course they don't. They know they wouldn't be safe there.

Actually thinking further about that news report, the gym owner was probably concerned about liability if the transman was raped in the men's.

I'm troubled by the school where pupils use the staff toilets... which toilets, male or female? If male, isn't there a safeguarding issue? And if female, how is that more acceptable for trans students than the facilities for female students? And do the staff not have a right to privacy too?

Staff loos are single-occupancy opening on the corridor and unisex (as far as I can tell, not being staff).