Are terms like Male Tears unhelpful?

[Micaela64]

Think about it, we try to explain to men that the patriarchy keeps them from expressing emotions and forces them to be "macho" and emotionless, then any time a man complains about what they perceive as injustices or hardships they’re shamed with comments like "LOL, male tears’" or "fragile masculinity!" instead of respectful counter arguments or attempt at understanding. Can men have emotions or not? It's the adult equivalent of telling male children "boys don't cry!"

How are we meant to argue that feminism can benefit them too and stop them facing the pressure of always living up to stereotypical roles if we then mock them for expressing emotions and feelings? It feels hypocritical.

I tire of seeing the level of debate descend into this sort of name-calling under every feminism article or video. When gay people were fighting for their rights they understood they had to get straight people on side to make real change. Maybe we need to learn from them a little?

I don't think those kinds of responses are made to men showing genuine emotional and respectful responses to feminist posts.

I've never heard the term 'male tears' or mocked a man for crying or seen anyone else do that, so I'm not really able to help

I'm sure lots of the experienced posters here will be able to though.

'Male tears' isn't used to mock men who cry, but when they moan about a privilege being revoked or women getting their own spaces. For example, women only swimming sessions, I would say men who object and kick up a stink can bugger off with their Male tears.

In other words it's used for when men's feelings are irrelevant, but they insist on making heir voices heard and moaning about 'equality'

Ah thanks Cherry I've learnt my something new for the day I'll go and do something useful now

I've only heard the term 'male tears' in the context of people complaining that feminists use it. I've yet to hear a feminist use it or use it myself.

I don't recall ever directly accusing anyone of 'fragile masculinity' either, but if I were to say or think anything along those lines it would be in a context where they were expressing unreasonable levels of anger, not sadness or vulnerability.

(I don't think men need more encouragement to express anger, on the whole)

It's just another way that feminism promotes conventional gender roles while pretending they do nothing of the sort.

It's how they try and force men's expression of emotion to conform with women's expression of emotion - the fact that only tears, not anger can be an expression of pain or loss (unless, of course, it's a feminist reacting to a loss of rights, in which case rage can be expressed in the vilest forms possible quite legitimately).

It's deliberately demeaning, toxically hypocritical and simply reinforces the understanding held by many that feminism is just an academic rationale for contempt towards men. Nietzschean slave morality at it's finest.

I should point out, that the most frequent place I've seen it used is on websites dominated by young third/fourth wave feminists, many of whom are of your pro-trans faction. I don't imagine many of the anti-trans feminists here are of the age or faction-loyalty to see it often employed.

I've never heard 'male tears' before today.

No, @MephistophelesApprentice, you're wrong about that. @CherryChasingDotMuncher has explained it clearly.

Micaela64
What websites do you see those terms used on?
How do you tackle the issue when you see them used on those websites?

They are not common terms used on this forum.

I think there was someone hawking 'Male Tears' branded mugs on this very message board not that long ago.

As others have said, male tears is a satirical term. It doesn't refer to men actually crying! It refers to men's temper tantrums when they encounter any kind of "no" from women.

Really? an advanced search cant find any mention of it for several years, until this thread.

No, @AssassinatedBeauty, CherryChasingDotMuncher is just using the same excuse that sexists use when they call women 'shrill' when they're addressing issues that sexists regard as irrelevant to their interests.

No, you've definitely misunderstood the point @CherryChasingDotMuncher is making. This response is not used in response to genuine, emotional, respectful comments made by men in the course of a sensible debate. It is used in response to absurd posts usually made by anti-feminists/anti-women types.

I have only ever seen it used either as CherryChasing says, to draw attention to someone throwing a hissy fit over some imagined reverse inequality ("yeah, there are less women MPs and CEOs, but let me tell you about sexism, my local pool has a women only swim session which I'm not allowed to attend..." "But isn't that 4.30 on a Monday afternoon when you're in work anyway?" "Yeah but no but yeah, it's the principle of the thing, innit?" "Oh god, cry me a river...") or in as a self deprecating form of humour ("Well of course, we feminazis like to bathe in male tears... keeps our leg hair nice and supple...")

I have never seen it used about serious issues, like men's mental health, or PTSD among (mostly male) combat veterans.

And you know this fine, Meph, you spend enough time hanging around the feminism boards being deliberately contrarian to know this. I think you're goading (as usual). Incidentally, I can tell you the last thing I did in RL for men's mental health (gig for health for heroes): what's the last thing you did, Meph?

Never heard a feminist mocking a man for showing emotions over genuine issues. The male tears trope is about the crocodile tears MREs shed for imagined privilege they believe women hold.

Suggesting feminists mock genuine displays of emotion from men is pretty much par for the MRE course anyway, so I'm hardly surprised it's been dredged up out of the aVfM vaults here.

I know it's a tired old stereotype, but it does feel a bit 'bingo'y when these things get brought up.

Also, so lovely to have words used by women wazzocksplained to us again. It's always such a refreshing thing when it happens, reminds me what we're up against.

AssassinatedBeauty

I intensely doubt a feminist can/will perceive a difference between a post made out of genuine concern for men's rights and an 'absurd' post. After all, a few minutes reading on this (relatively respectful) forum will show that any concern for men's rights is regarded as absurd.

What you're describing is the same phenomenon when sexist men on a forum mock a woman for getting angry, or say they can't listen to BLM activists because they're being 'too angry.' It's the attempt to use mockery to exert control over a activists who aren't being nice enough. Sound familiar?

AssassinatedBeauty

I intensely doubt a feminist can/will perceive a difference between a post made out of genuine concern for men's rights and an 'absurd' post. After all, a few minutes reading on this (relatively respectful) forum will show that any concern for men's rights is regarded as absurd.

What you're describing is the same phenomenon when sexist men on a forum mock a woman for getting angry, or say they can't listen to BLM activists because they're being 'too angry.' It's the attempt to use mockery to exert control over a activists who aren't being nice enough. Sound familiar?

Nope, not familiar at all. You're projecting your own prejudices and assumptions onto this rather than looking at the reality of it.

You've also just ignored a post on this thread showing genuine concern for male issues.

I'm really pleased to hear that Cherry is right as I can't actually work out what Meph is trying to say.

What's the SCUM manifesto?

I like wazzocksplained I'm adding that to 'give your head a shite' 'wankspangle', 'fucknuckle' and a very long word beginning with v as the best things I've learnt recently.

Nope, not familiar at all. You're projecting your own prejudices and assumptions onto this rather than looking at the reality of it.

We could ping-pong that accusation back and forth for a while, and neither of us would get any joy from it.

You've also just ignored a post on this thread showing genuine concern for male issues.

I don't believe for even a jiffy that PricklyBall did her gig out of concern for men.