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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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A letter to the TERFs

653 replies

Helen1111 · 13/12/2017 18:36

__

To the women shrieking transphobic abuse on Mumsnet, in the name of women's rights,

Ten, fifteen years from now, when the world you wish for has come to pass, I ask you to remember me.

Remember me when you have your first baby and the trans woman by the bed next to you, who was with her wife every step of the way is consistently humiliated, dehumanised and denied her true value as a mother, because the best people can manage is to call her a facsimile of a woman, a pseudo-father, and she wishes that just for once, at this most transformative of moments, they would call her a woman, a mother, because that's what she is. But they can’t or they won’t, because they think that denying her the right to be a mother somehow gives them more rights or keeps them safe.

Remember me when your trans neighbour, who is waiting to have children before he starts hormone therapy, gives birth, and feels vulnerable and exposed, because the one person who would truly have been able to understand how he feels (and the best midwife on the ward) has been drummed out by transphobic haters who call her "a man in a dress.". Remember me when the doctors refuse to let your trans cousin see a female doctor, because they won’t record her sex as ‘female.’ Remember me when they laugh at her genitalia, when strangers ask to see what’s under her dress, when they force her to show them, even though her body is screaming no.

Remember me when your elderly mother, who is still reeling from you declaring her “lost to dementia” despite being every bit a feeling, thinking human being, goes into a care home and, despite having lived as a woman all her adult life, is called Sam, and cared for with the men. And even in her addled state of mind, she knows that she is Susan, and you know she is your mother, but you cannot object, and can only sit by while her confusion is compounded with depression, anxiety and grief.

Remember me when your daughter comes home from school crying, the daughter who has spent the last five years training to be the best athlete in her class, her school, her district, she's crying because transphobic mothers won’t allow her to run in the girls' race, but she can't go into the boys' changing rooms for fear of being beaten, and she knows it doesn't matter how hard she trains, she will never be allowed to compete, or even if she does, people would never accept her victories.

Remember me when you go into a toilet late at night, perhaps in a bar, and there's no one else around, and a guy walks in, he has a beard and is wearing jeans and a t shirt, and the way he looks at you seems off, and you feel afraid and unsettled and worried he might hurt you. But you can't challenge him, because the law says he is a woman, because he wasn’t born with a penis.

Remember me when your niece goes for a promotion, for a board position at work that's designated for a woman. She’s put in the hours, she’s worked so hard, she knows she deserves it. And the position goes to Lola, who has spent the last year subjecting her to transphobic bullying her at every opportunity, and making her life so miserable that she’s considered suicide more than once. Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Remember me when you read on the news that crime statistics for trans men and women being raped, murdered, beaten and driven to suicide are on the increase, and that, not only did you do anything to challenge or prevent this, but you spurred it on, in the name of women’s rights. Remember me too, when vulnerable trans women, who look for all the world like you and me, are locked up in male prisons and cannot escape, even though they are imprisoned with the very people who abused them and drove them to the edge.

Remember me when your son comes home from school and says that he's learned at school that you can change sex and that some girls have penises and some boys have vaginas, and he tells you that this was the first time he ever felt like there was a truly place for him in the world. But then his teacher told him it is wrong and immoral to be like this. And you realise that all this time, when you preached transphobia, you were teaching others that your son was wrong, was a misogynist in women’s clothing. And you realise that your son, your wonderful, unique, son, will only be happy when you accept him as your daughter. Remember me when a few months down the line the teacher calls you in and says she's concerned that your son is depressed, that he is being bullied by people who were once his friends, but she doesn't want to have to involve their parents in this, because it’s really just a lifestyle choice and people should be free to tell him what they think of him, after all it’s really just protecting the rights of the girls in the class. But you are afraid – of yourself, your son, your friends, and you don’t know what to do.

In this brave new world that you helped to create, look around for your transphobic friends, the ones who called trans women “six foot men with stubble in a dress” and yet still claimed these ‘men’ were “benefitting from the patriarchy.” Look around and maybe you will finally see that this has cost trans women everything, it has made the world a harder, crueller place for them, and yet they still did this. Despite the odds, the pain, the abuse, despite never being considered to be one thing or another, they still chose to live as women.

And me? I'll be where I've always been. Fighting for all our rights. Fighting to tell you that you do not do this in my name. Fighting to undo the damage.

Watch your own backs, we’ve got ours.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
LEMtheoriginal · 13/12/2017 19:20

I agreed with the other thread but I have changed my mind. What with all the biscuits?? Make you feel good does it?? Fucking vile behaviour.

Thank you OP You have brought me to my senses.

KeemaNaan · 13/12/2017 19:21

Jesus wept. I don’t usually post on these threads, but you started off with misogyny and ended with threats. Like a man.

Women! Sit down! Shut up! Or else!

The bits in between were badly argued, poorly articulated and a load of bollocks.

Just....no. Go and have a word with yourself. I’m embarrassed for you.

Terrylene · 13/12/2017 19:21

Wasn't Lola a transwoman? Confused

Thelilywhite · 13/12/2017 19:25

What with all the biscuits?? Make you feel good does it?? Fucking vile behaviour.
Grin

KeemaNaan · 13/12/2017 19:26

Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home.

Erm. Women need time off for surgery. To have children. Because they’ve been beaten by their partner. And so on and so forth.

You have no idea about what it’s like to be a woman existing in the patriarchy.

I’m stepping away. Your lack of self awareness is awesome but unconquerable, I suspect.

CosmicCanary · 13/12/2017 19:28

Thank you OP You have brought me to my senses.

If you agree with the stolen letter then I fear you have done the opposite.

TheBatPig · 13/12/2017 19:30

Utter bum gravy

Backingvocals · 13/12/2017 19:30

Actually this thread is cheering me right up.

therealposieparker · 13/12/2017 19:32
  1. Post baby I would be insisting that after being stitched up and nearly dying that any bloke pretending that his needs are anywhere near as important as mine can fuck right off.
  2. How selfish people choose to abuse their kids by not giving them a mother is more of a concern than a man being laughed at because he wore a skirt... frankly being a woman if that was the full extent of abuse I'd received from men I'd dare say I'd be rather delighted.
  3. I would have disowned my father far far sooner that the dementia if he was selfish enough to transition post kids and I would have been far too loyal too my mother to be gaslighted by an abusive male.
  4. My children are not being abused or lied to and therefore understand a) you can't change sex and b) boys have physical advantages over girls.
  5. I've no idea who is who in this. Is this a woman who has taken hormones with a beard? or a guy who has severed his penis?
  6. Again really no fantasies in my family. However men cannot go for women's roles, they are few and far between and created for a specific purpose and that purpose is not to fund a urinal in the ladies.
  7. Seriously if trans women are so worried about prison perhaps they shouldn't be violent thugs or rapists....
  8. My kids have already talked about changing sex and how horrific it is and too anti science for words. They also know about Jazz and his micro penis and the vagina created out of a colon that smells of shit.
  9. Please don't lecture women about oppression, fear or threats (especially when literal threatening us) we KNOW about that it is our unidentifying out of lived experience.

And lastly, I expect your parents wish you put a bit more effort at school as you cannot write for shit and your post makes very little sense.

BatShite · 13/12/2017 19:32

To the women on Mumsnet womens rights, doing what they do and caring about the rights of women

You are all big meanies.

Worship the almighty penis. You especially, lesbians. You have got away with avoiding it for too damn long.

thecraftyfox · 13/12/2017 19:33

Lola will never do anything inconvenient like needing time off to have surgery, or to recover from the latest transphobic beating she received when walking home, (though either of them could get breast cancer because it doesn’t just affect people who were born female).

Because as a female Lola would have no idea about sexual violence and wouldnt5 ever be at risk of being abused or raped either in the street or at home. She would never be held back from promotion because of the assumption she will go off on maternity leave at some point. She will never get pregnant and take leave and then have to balance motherhood and working. She won't need to take time off for surgery to repair a vaginal prolapse or to go for a repeat smear test and then part of her cervix removed.

What would a humble woman know about being passed over for promotion?

TeslasDeathRay · 13/12/2017 19:33

Anything for a line?

I do agree with your intent OP, but I don't know if this is the best way to go about it. It does make no sense to be a feminist and against trans people. Conflating being a woman with fitting a certain set of characteristics is what you're supposed to be against, but you're feeding into it. Being trans-exclusionary against trans women is basically saying that a vagina is the only important part of a woman. You care more about a vagina than the person it's attached to. Your "feminism" is bullshit because it's reducing women to their genitals, which is exactly what misogyny does. You twisted feminism to suit your agenda and in doing so you made it misogynistic.

Literally take any Intro to Psych class at any university in the Western world and one of the first things they teach you when you get to the gender, sex and sexuality unit is gender is a social construct and is separate from sex, based on almost half a century of psychological research and a record of historical evidence that goes back, oh, since the beginning of human civilisation. Yeah, every medical association in the developed world has a universal treatment for gender dysphoria, it’s called “transitioning”.

People who moan about trans people not being real or crazy or just some leftist propaganda out to castrate their precious gender roles are honestly on the same anti-science boat as global warming deniers at this point.

A letter to the TERFs
PricklyBall · 13/12/2017 19:34

I think LEM is taking the piss cosmic.

Oswin · 13/12/2017 19:34

So you think a born male is fine to compete against girls. You think I should have to accept a midwife who's a male but feels like a women?

LittlePaintBox · 13/12/2017 19:34

CertainHalfDesertedSTreets:

I think you're just already in a stylistic hole when every subject needs parenthetical statements before you can proceed - 'your son, who used to be your daughter, comes home crying because the girls in his class, who were born girls, said something bad about Mr Jones, who wears a dress but only at the weekend...'

Crying with laughter here. This is so accurate. There is no clear way to talk about gender once you accept self-definition for everyone.

MissBax · 13/12/2017 19:35

Thanks for reminding me of this tune!

OpalIridescence · 13/12/2017 19:36

I agree with LEM and want to thank you OP

Without your fabulous letter I would have continued unaware of the existence of wankspangle, fuck knuckle and bum gravy.

Because of that, OP, I will always solemnly remember you. Salutes.

BeyondAssignation · 13/12/2017 19:38

Are you not coming back to the thread helen? I was so looking forward to your response.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 13/12/2017 19:38

If your intent was to be a Goady fucker OP then you did well.

therealposieparker · 13/12/2017 19:39

Telas

Are you saying that women are not oppressed due to our reproductive capacity?

perfectlywretched · 13/12/2017 19:40

I think this response to the terf ideology is really powerful. Many of you admit on here you don’t have a problem with trans people. I think deep down you feel compassion and don’t wish harm and hatred on your fellow human beings.

I think most of you appreciate the majority of trans women want to share women’s right rather than trample all over them.
Is it time to admit it’s not trans women with genuine body dysphoria who are the problem but the tiny minority’s of pisstakers who claim to be women when they are not? Surely common sense can weed them out? And we can start showing compassion and solidarity to trans women?

ArcheryAnnie · 13/12/2017 19:41

I see TeslasDeathRay's bingo card has as the "free square" a two-for-one, which manages both the usual misogynistic wank about trans women being better at being women than actual women, so women are well jell, obviously of trans women, AND misogynistic wank implying that the important thing about any woman is how attractive her legs are.

Well done, Tesla. You haven't let us down.

Bluebellforest1 · 13/12/2017 19:42

Helen1111 I assume you are yet another name change for someone who is trying to disrupt these threads.
I am 62, I worked as a nurse for 40 years, both in general and mental health. I understand biology, anatomy and physiology and psychology. I have seen many penises in the course of my work but have never seen a female penis - thank god.
This is unbelievable shite. Women (natal women) have body issues dictated by their biology, they have periods, breast problems, post natal lochia, menopausal symptoms, incontinence. We women need spaces to not be invaded by men. I’m sorry but I really don’t want to share a shop changing room with a woman with a penis when I’m trying on a dress and adjusting my Tena pad.
I’m so sad for the world my grandchildren will inhabit.

CherryChasingDotMuncher · 13/12/2017 19:42

Wasn't Lola a transwoman?

No silly, she was a showgirl.

GrockleBocs · 13/12/2017 19:42

Transcoherence. A bit like a coherent piece of writing, but not actually one.

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