Being told I'm a ciswoman

[DeleteOrDecay]

My first trans related thread, well more of a rant. So please be nice

Got into a 'debate' with someone on a Facebook page I follow about the term 'cis'. Apparently I'm no longer allowed to refer to myself as just female/woman. I am now a 'ciswoman'. So far I've been told:

• that the term 'cis' is a scientific term (oh how I laughed at that one).
• that as I'm not trans or non binary then I am a cis woman and that's that
• that I'm wrong for finding the term 'cis' offensive and refusing to accept being called it.

It's just infuriating. Why shouldn't I be allowed to refer to myself as a biological woman. I don't need a silly, shitty prefix to identify myself I'm a woman, we've existed since the dawn of time.

Oh got another one "it's merely a descriptor no need to be offended" why do I even need a 'descriptor'. Surely female/woman is enough of a description, after all that is what I am.

I totally agree. I’m a woman. All love to transwomen and everything but I do not have to self-define in opposition to them.

There was a thread about this in AIBU recently

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3094498-to-not-really-know-what-cis-means

Basically, it's a term that has been clumsily appropriated from isomeric chemistry and applied to a sociological concept.

If you take the radical feminist position that gender is an oppressive hierarchy, then identifying as cis indicates that you identify with and consent to your subordinate status within the patriarchal framework.

Many women reject the idea of having a gender at all, therefore cannot be "cis" as there's nothing to cross over/ align with in reference to their sex.

"If a man can say that they're a woman and be respected for that, then surely you can respect if I say I'm offended rather than try and talk me out of it?"

I actually do find cis an offensive term. I don't need no prefix. Transwomen are the ones messing about and reinforcing gender stereotypes- if they want to differentiate then they can take the prefix rather than redefine womanhood to suit their terms.

I attempt to clarify that I'm not comfortable with my 'gender assigned at birth' and therefore cannot be 'cis'. Also that I am 'non-binary' in many ways (as is everyone else).

Oh got another one "it's merely a descriptor no need to be offended

Tell them, "ok no problem, I'll just call you a man and you call me a ciswoman and neither of us are allowed to be offended at being called something we don't like. job done"

"ok no problem, I'll just call you a man and you call me a ciswoman and neither of us are allowed to be offended at being called something we don't like. job done"

Perfect response

The reply should be "woman is my descriptor, no need to be offended" Why are they allowed to be offended but you aren't?

Ask ''does cis mean real?''

I'm not offended but it is the height of silliness when a woman born a woman is expected to say cis woman but a woman-born-a-man can just say woman ---- ??

prefer this answer

''"ok no problem, I'll just call you a man and you call me a ciswoman and neither of us are allowed to be offended at being called something we don't like. job done"

Craic that's brilliant. I might use that quote if that's ok.

The person replied saying cis and biological essentially mean the same thing anyway.

My reply was well if they mean the same thing then what exactly is the point in the cis label? They didn't have an answer for that. It was a 'whole other debate' apparently.

Interesting.

If someone wants me to refer to them as him/her/they, I am polite enough to do it if it makes their life easier/is just generally what they prefer. So why the fuck can't they refer to other people in the manner in which they choose?

You, and probably everyone on this thread are trans not cis. Cis means that your gender identity and sex match.

Trans means umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

So the vast majority of people are trans. Enjoy your new found snowflakedom...

Tiny that's perfect except the person I'm arguing with looks to be a biological woman.

It's the asymmetry of gender politics rearing its ugly head again, aka double standards against women. Misogyny.

Tell her you are an AFAB transwoman and watch her head explode (and there is no way she can argue against you without also arguing against the validity of trans)

Thanks for the link Bah I'll take a look.

And now she's brought intersex people into it.

It's like playing transactivist bingo.

'Most biologists agree that sex is difficult to accurately describe' - eh? Since when. If you have a penis you're Male, if you have a vagina you're female. If you have both then you have a medical condition.

It's really not bloody hard

And hey if they don't want natal women to be women who exactly is it that they want to pretend to be? Do they want us to adopt another descriptor and then they can come and take that in a few years time when they decide that actually they are now identifying away from what they identified as in the first place?

Don't forget 'ze' !

It's so ridiculous.

I mean I don't care if a man wants to wear a dress, put make up on or even have his penis removed (even though most don't). But that doesn't make them a woman. It may be their own perception of what a woman is but it doesn't make them an actual woman. Transwoman yes. Woman woman, no.

Just tell them to stop mis-gendering you. If they carry on tell them they're being gender-phobic.

Ohhh a new hashtag. #cisfragility is a new one