Does anyone listen to The Guilty Feminist podcast? Trans stuff.

[CloudPerson]

I listened to their latest podcast yesterday, the general theme was The Handmaid's Tale.
They brought up some interesting stuff about trans issues and I wanted to discuss them.
On the whole I enjoy the podcast, it's entertaining, their use of cis irritates me, but I do enjoy it.

Their view of transwomen/men was one I generally agree with. Some interesting points about encouraging fluid genders and non binary as this will confuse the patriarchy, which I agree with. People should be who they are, live and dress how they want to be, take away gender, because is damaging bullshit.

However, when I read about things happening now, erasure of women, lesbians etc, the small/vocal/aggressive/homophobic minority, isn't this actively encouraging misogyny and the patriarchy? Keeping people in their neat gender boxes? Encouraging strict gender roles, sexism? It isn't encouraging a more open, welcoming society at all.

If current trans issues were as harmless as TGF podcast says it is, there wouldn't be the opposition. Sure you'd still get your bigots who don't like trans people because they're not fitting in the box, but I certainly wouldn't have any issue at all if it was simply a case of people campaigning to live happily and having a right not to be targeted. But the way it's going I do have a problem, because TRAs campaigns could actively harm women and womens' rights.

Someone on the podcast also mentioned the lack of trans people in The Handmaid's Tale, or they were referenced to as gender traitors and not a big part of the story? (I haven't watched the tv adaptation but read the book a while ago and can't really remember this bit). My take on that is that if current loud TRAs get their way then trans people will be erased anyway, because transwomen are women, I on the face of it, it looks like a purely binary society is their aim? So a potential future could look like some women having fertility issues and not being able to carry babies, but because they are born men, except that won't be spoken of because it's deadnaming/violence/bigotry?

Anyway, not had much sleep, rambling a bit. Just wondered if anyone else had listened to this and what they thought.

"Good. I would include trans women in that group"

Can I ask a couple of questions?

1. why do you think that trans women are indistinguishable from natal women? What brought you to that conclusion?
2. In what ways do you think that trans women are disadvantaged in comparison to natal women of the same age, education and social class?

Pardon?

Who is ‘born trans’ what does that mean??

I would say that anyone who doesn’t fit into a regular box is likely to be disadvantaged in some way ie homosexual people

I have a real problem with how 'middle class white women' is used in trans debates. I feel its used as a way to shut up the women who are willing and able to speak up. White middle class women don't necessarily have power and influence - they aren't allowed to define what it is to be a women after all.

No, I'm not accepting all this identity politics/intersectional bullshit. Some middle class white women might have more advantages that black people certainly, but many don't. Some have seriously shit lives. It's the bottom up hierarchy that's causing all these problems. Try to establish equality of opportunity for all people and stop with all the privileged nonsense, because it actually helps noone but alienates many who might otherwise have been allies.

Can you define what you mean by trans people please lion.
Are you reffering to people with sex dysphoria or to cross dressers?

They don’t have as much power and influence as WMCM but they still have some in comparison to other groups.

The idea isn’t that WMCW should shut up because they’re privileged AT ALL. It’s that they should take the other less privileged groups with them where they can.

If a WMCW is given a platform, she should use that platform to introduce the voices of other groups like eg a podcast.

Yes, she (guilty feminist woman) always goes on about her white middleclass woman 'privileged. Pisses me off. Should they all wander about apologising like she does? That was my last try at the Guilty Feminist.

Sex is not a spectrum or sliding scale. There are discrete sexes.

Overwhelmingly people do fall into a camp because women have something men want control of.

Also, middle class women are not privileged compared to the wealthy. The fixation on the middle class is weird.

Lion
Isn't it better to campaign for an even start in life for everyone rather than taking pot shots at particular groups? It doesn't seem to be a very successful strategy, it just pisses people off.

I can see what you’re saying but I don’t agree.

Just because you have a platform doesn’t mean you have to fight all fights all the time, it’s exhausting and dilutes your stance. If you have a feminist podcast then yes I think you need to include less advantaged women into the conversation but I don’t think that’s the same as accepting male bodies as female bodies, it’s another bait and swap.

"I would say that anyone who doesn’t fit into a regular box is likely to be disadvantaged in some way ie homosexual people"
In what specific ways are trans women disadvantaged compared to natal women of similar age, education and class?

People need to stop with this ‘check your privilege’ you can only speak when I tell you shit. It’s fueling the fire of the far right.

I also wish trans activists wouldn’t appropriate other people’s struggles, we’ve had black people, intersex people and gay peoples struggles mentioned so far and not one example of trans.

Sylvia you are right but the wealthy are a tiny group and it didn’t change my point not to mention them

Trans women are disadvantaged because they are not able to comfortably live their lives in the way that they would like. They cannot join the armed forces in the us for example, they face discrimination at work. They may or may not have problems getting married in countries like Australia

The wealthy are the people who have power and control. They control the media.

DFW accepts transitioned males to females as females on the platform, so I don’t think she thinks it dilutes the feminist message.

The white middle class men run the show these days. Ok you have Rupert Murdoch types but I suppose WMCM is a catch all term for the patriarchy

What on earth are you talking about? The power of the wealthy and the extent of their wealth has hugely increased over the last twenty years. By definition, middle class people are not in control.

"The white middle class men run the show these days."

And that's the problem - we have to pretend that many trans aren't white middle class men.

Trans women are disadvantaged because they are not able to comfortably live their lives in the way that they would like

Who is?

They cannot join the armed forces in the us for example, they face discrimination at work.

They can, they just can't join the armed forces as the sex they are not. (or I suspect be on longterm medication - which applies to anyone)

They may or may not have problems getting married in countries like Australia

That's not because their trans, that's because gay marriage isn't supported - that's a gay rights issue.

Gay marriage is a trans rights issue if it affects trans people

No she doesn’t think it dilutes the message because she thinks their women because obviously womanhood is nothing more than a feeling.

And we’re saying that’s regressive.

I don’t think a transitioned trans person is a “white man”