Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

[windygallows]

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

Therealslimshady1, agree wholeheartedly. Shame that it was the same for you as your mum though- in a generation, not much has changed? Surprised to find myself here. I agree that lots of jobs can be boring and a "bit shit"- there is a lot of corporate BS - I find the older and grumpier I get, the harder it is to patiently put up with waffle and nonsense in meetings etc.

But a career can be v rewarding if you are not simultaneously chief mothering/ household exec officer too. I miss getting great results at work and running a team. Plus its hard to give up financial independence.

Thank God the kids are damn cute.. I like to think (perhaps naively) that these days women (and men) can dip in and out of the workplace over the years. But of course that might entail working for and facilitating people less experienced and clever than yourself ;)

Well that’s marvellous isn’t it. Create high powered all hours jobs that require you to have an unpaid facilitator at home and when you get bored of your unpaid facilitator you can upgrade her for another model and you don’t even have to give her a penny in maintenance as we have equality now so she can simply go get a job. It’s not the people on this thread that are looking down on sahms...

I'm a facilitator and a very happy one.
I enjoy saving our family money and not living my life like a hamster on a wheel. I'd be terrible in a corporate role, wouldn't last a day.
I hate having to do as I'm told/ expected for x amount of hours, earning money for fat cats.
Some thrive in this environment and see themselves as successful if they are promoted to make the fat cats more money.
It's each to their own.

Great thread. I've been thinking about the question of why do we do it.

I'm the higher earner, although he is catching up. He does a fair amount of childcare and housework. I definitely facilitate him when it comes to wifework though and the reason I do it is for the kids.

Quite why he can't see or understand that he has to read the school newsletters to find out when there is school photos or inset days or dress up days I don't know. Why I have to tell him that it is important to go to the school meeting about phonics for our reception child ( I'm on a business trip, see I'm even motivating to you all why I'm not the one going). Why I buy all the kids Xmas and bday presents. Why I keep track of their friends names.

Not sure what to do about it without it affecting the kids. Open for suggestions though!

Agree with Tribpot's last point that some still view it as socially acceptable for males working part-time (to help w childcare and domestic work)-- even in 2018

God, I think this all the time. I’m the higher earner (by a factor of 4, yes 4x) but do everything except that husband is supposed to do food shops and cooking however is never home early enough to cook dinner (as he prioritises work) and then I end up eating ready meals with DD and resenting all the life admin and the mental burden of responsibility I take on. He is trying to get a more 9-5 job to “support my career” but I’ll believe it when it actually happens. If he gets emails from school about stuff they go unread...

I never worked in the corporate world, my work was challenging both emotionally and intellectually it was however poorly paid compared to corporate life. At the start of our working lives I actually earned more than DH but as time went on the gap grew bigger and bigger. I was also in a traditional female heavy profession. If I insisted on what would work best for me my family would be much poorer. It is not a simple as saying I chose this, I did but I felt pushed into the choice at the same time. I have a good life, I like lots about it but I do think that things are still skewed against women, particularly women with Dc. I don't see the thread as disrespectful to sahp.

I facilitate my husband as you’ve put it because it was the most beneficial for our family. His career had the most earning potential and even at the top of my career I couldn’t quite get a quarter of what he gets now.
Plus I wanted to look after the children and that wouldn’t have suited him at all.
I really think it’s just down to personal preference. Close friends of ours are the other way around because that’s what suits them.

Great thread. I ended up both having it all and doing it all with 2young DC when my ex left after an affair.
I am lucky in that I got back into the work place at a senior level as I had specialist skills and I hired a cleaner and got an aupair to help me keep it together. It was a really hard few years and I constantly worried the DC were losing out.

Their dad just carried on working and travelling as he had before and picked them up on his weekends, leaving everything else to me.

I had a big job with a long commute and used to drive home so tired some days that I had to stop for a little sleep in a lay-by so I didn't fall asleep at the wheel. I adore my kids, but the endless juggling was incredibly stressful.

Now they are university age I am a SVP and I have time to focus as much as I like on my job. The sheer headspace this offers is amazing. Although I am over 50 I am no longer tired all the time.

Now I am just doing what a lot of these men do all the time, and I am stuck by the difference between now and how life was. Being a facilitated man really is a piece of piss compared to single parenting.

Great thread. I ended up both having it all and doing it all with 2young DC when my ex left after an affair.
I am lucky in that I got back into the work place at a senior level as I had specialist skills and I hired a cleaner and got an aupair to help me keep it together. It was a really hard few years and I constantly worried the DC were losing out.

Their dad just carried on working and travelling as he had before and picked them up on his weekends, leaving everything else to me.

I had a big job with a long commute and used to drive home so tired some days that I had to stop for a little sleep in a lay-by so I didn't fall asleep at the wheel. I adore my kids, but the endless juggling was incredibly stressful.

Now they are university age I am a SVP and I have time to focus as much as I like on my job. The sheer headspace this offers is amazing. Although I am over 50 I am no longer tired all the time.

Now I am just doing what a lot of these men do all the time, and I am stuck by the difference between now and how life was. Being a facilitated man really is a piece of piss compared to single parenting.

DP works from home most Friday's but always with the proviso that he might have to go in for a meeting if someone very senior is there or the IT doesn't work. He does the school run on those days. One Friday in August he had a day off with the Dc and I went on a business trip 3 hours away. He said why are you going on a Friday, the traffic will be terrible (it was). I said because I can only travel that far if you do both ends of the day and most days you don't and you will never guarantee your availability. So I'm basically 'on-call' and he will never drop work stuff for the kids (or me) unless he can keep it 'under the radar'.

I'm a SAHM but atm I'd say DH facilitates me.

Bkgd: I used to be the higher earner when he was a research student. He had to quit that and get a job when I became pg, as we couldn't live on maternity allowance. I returned to work for a bit, but hated it so quit. I now home ed my kids, and work pt in the evenings.

I get to go out when I want, take the kids wherever they need to be (and he'll pick them up from their 'after school' activities), I choose to do this. I do all the clothes washing (which I enjoy, and I don't iron. DH does his own shirts), he does all the dishwashing, we share cooking, we share taking the kids to bed. I take responsibility for the kids' stuff (as far as writing it on the calendar, and telling DH where he needs to be), whereas he takes responsibility for paying bills etc. I buy the presents for my side of the family, he buys for his side, and we both buy the kids' stuff.

However, there is a chance he'll be able to do a PhD through work, but it means that he'll be working FT and having to do the PhD around that. I will be facilitating him then, by stopping my work, and taking on more of the kids' things. Our long term plan, is that when the kids leave home, I'll be able to study.

@windygallows I don’t need to be patronised, either, thank you.

There are facilitated women as well !! We had friends where the wife was a barrister and the husband stayed at home with the children. He did everything for them whilst she slogged at her career. A few years later she left him for an older colleague who had lots of power. He retrained as a Primary teacher. It isn’t always one way traffic.

I’m a very happy SAHM. I don’t need anyone’s pity, sympathy or sneers, thanks. I respect women who work and I deserve the same respect - my job isn’t any the less because it’s traditionally women’s work, or because it’s unpaid.

I've seen neither pity, sympathy or sneers on this thread. Instead it is a very interesting and measured discussion of why, despite the acceleration of women in the workplace, wives facilitating the careers of husbands is still regarded as a norm and yet increasingly undervalued (if it was truly valued spousal maintenance wouldn't be on its way out)

little the women on this thread are not saying your job is the less because it is unpaid. But society and the law certainly don't value it in the same way. So women on here - who aren't all WOHM - are saying women should be very careful to assess the risks financially before deciding to be the facilitator part of the team. And maybe think carefully about what a decision to be the facilitator might mean down the road. Capital assets will be split in the event of a divorce. Income generally won't. And these situations often result in a couple who started with the same qualifications/jobs having an exhusband who is a high earner and an exwife who is a low earner with minimal prospects. None of us imagine we will divorce but my own happily married mother warned me and my sister that we should make decisions factoring in the worst. I think it was good advice.

No one is sneering at SAHMs. And many women saying they faciliate and it bugs the shit out of them aren't SAHMs anyway but in the workplace. I spent 30 years in a professional, high-powered job. My husband still out-earns me and is facilitated by me (I call it assisted living). He is a good guy. I like him and like being married to him. I still think there is a lot of value in looking at the bigger picture for this and I think the OP raised really interesting questions.

This thread has inspired me to gently remind DH to chase immigration lawyers about my working permit, I think it will take up to a year to transfer and register my qualifications but I shouldn't ignore my quiet inner voice of disquiet at being totally dependent on another person, even if it is someone I love and trust.

Just to add I was a facilitator when I worked four days a week, I worked I just had to always make sure my work fitted around DC as DH did no routine parenting during the week.

I went to an absolutely mind blowing presentation about the gender wealth gap the other day, and this thread is making me think about it again.

We hear a lot about the gender pay gap and the (small) efforts that are being made to address that. But of far more significance is the discrepancy between men and women when it comes to wealth, and particularly lifetime net worth. In some countries (USA), the average woman holds 32 cents of wealth to men's 100. Across the eurozone it sits at an average of about 69 cents, with some countries being markedly much worse than others.

that's what leaves women in poverty when they're old. All of these small decisions, insignificant in themselves, build up over a lifetime. Stepping back from your pension for a few years, taking a couple of years out for children, and (I think sadly), that women just don't manage our finances in our long term interests as well as men do - partly lack of knowledge, partly risk aversion, partly not wanting to be greedy or grabby. It all adds up to a bleak financial picture for your typical woman compared to your typical man. Of course, money isn't everything. But it's much easier to say that when you have it.

article here

Forgot to make the link back to this thread!

As well as facilitating men's lives, a lot of women facilitate men's wealth too - to our detriment.

Thank you for starting this thread. I have recently gone back to work full time, and assumed "primary breadwinner status", and DH has gone part-time, after YEARS of me being a "facilitator". So far so good, although I need to leave very clear notes about homework, friends' names, playdates, etc. And this change took an entire summer of very careful negotiation (and many rows, some of which were painful and heated)

What really makes me cross is when I am told I am "lucky". As in, "ooh, aren't you lucky to have DH do school run/cook/do laundry/organize playdates." WTAF!? How often do men get told they are "lucky" for having women wash their socks, sling fish fingers, sign permission slips, etc?

ARRGHGHGHGHGHHGH

Fecking Patriarchy

lifesrich if the roles were reversed you would still be told you were lucky. Lucky to be able to work part time and relax with the kids while your husband worked hard at a really demanding job.

It’s great for women as they are always the lucky ones!

I think women often end up doing more for the kids (to the detriment of their own careers / hobbies/ free time) is because they care more than their DP/ DH does or will certainly be judged more if they say little Johnny can't go to Cubs because its clashes with myself yoga. After DC2 we both thought life would be less stressful for the kids if they didn't have to be in nursery / school + wraparound care full time but only one person was prepared to make the sacrifice,

• but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

No it probably isn't.

But for individual families it may be the least worst choice. I agree with crumbs1- it was a practical decision.

Decisions that families make about being a "facilitated man" or a SAHM are made within the context of a broken system.

My OH works in a technical company. The only women are admin and accounts. All the people in his engineering team are men. Of the men that are fathers none have wives that work full time.
OHs job is demanding - although not that important in the scheme of things- meaning last minute overtime, unplanned hours around the clock, on call duties, lots of travel with little notice. I couldn't work full time and "facilitate" him too.

Yes the system is fucked, but I alone can't fix it, so we are doing the best we can as a family- and actually having a happy time.

Interesting point, charis.

So what people are really saying is "you're lucky to have a man, because, URGH! The alternative is so horrible". It doesn't matter what the man actually does, which will always be fabulous, above expectation and something you should be grateful for, just as long as he exists in your life.

Man, working fulltime outside the home: breadwinner, to be admired.
Man, working fulltime outside the home, and pulling his weight in it: to be lavishly admired for his commitment
Man, working part time or SAHP, performing all run of the mill parenting tasks: to be lavishly, comprehensively admired and sainted for his bravery and effort. Wife ought to feel grateful.

Woman, working fulltime outside the home: career woman. Query- a bit emasculating for her husband? (AKA my first marriage - I know whereof I speak).
Woman, working fulltime outside the home while pulling her weight in it: normal, unremarkable. What is she complaining about?
Woman, working part time or SAHP: normal, unremarkable, run of the mill - women are good at this stuff. Ought to feel grateful to breadwinning husband?

my yoga

And yes the pension pay gap is worrying too. I told my junior report to put the maximum in which the company will match even if she doesn't think she can afford it.