Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

[windygallows]

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

Maybe JigglyTuff this comment is telling

Their sole role is enabling others - their husband and their children become successful.

Why is it that paid work is the only way to be successful. You could say the mans role is 'financially enabling' the wife to have success elsewhere

The way money is set up in our culture is patriarchal. The very fact our society revolves around money is patriarchal and consumerist.

I dunno, it just bugs me.

I'm on the thread because it came up in active conversations and I wanted to add a comment. Sorry, your highness.

When I got a weekend job (9-1pm) I’d come home and they’d all be in bed, not dressed and house trashed.

And he wonders why I question our relationship.

I facilitate my husband’s career by dealing with the House/kids and he facilitated my ability to stay home with my children. If he didn’t work the hours and type of job he does then I couldn’t stay home. I’m quite happy with the trade off for now.

It really depends on what kind of job the main breadwinner is really. If they do a high level role like Senior Management there’s not much chance of them doing it unassisted. The hours just don’t exist in the day. Those roles, at least in my old industry, have a high expectation of always being available. Most women I know wanted to be the one to stay with their children and also need to facilitate in order for their husbands to be high earners. I don’t know anyone male or female who isn’t facilitated at work by PAs and at home by domestic staff and/or spouse.

Totally agree with this.

We both work full time, and recently my role had become "more important" than dh's (same organisation).

This week I said I was concerned about the DC being on their own after school (4pm-6pm) often.
His suggestions were:

• I should go in earlier so I could get home earlier
• I should work from home from 4pm

No compromise from him at all

Am really pissed off by this because I have ALWAYS worked full-time (back to work after 2.5 months maternity leave) and yet this inequality has STILL crept in, despite my vigilance.

I stepped up more in the early years because he was building his academic career, now that is coming back to hit me in the face.

I may as well have taken a year off for the kids and maybe I'd be less knackered now from "doing it all".

My husband facilitates me at the moment, we are currently ttc and I am curious as to how and if it will change when we have children.

At the moment, we made a move for my job that means he has an occasional four hour commute and frequent 5.30 am starts. This was to enable me to get a more senior role, but still one that pays slightly less than his. (I work in the charity sector so while I am ambitious it is not primarily about money) He comes home and will do the cooking, majority of other household tasks etc. I have deliberately manoeuvred myself into a position where if I stay at this level while taking mat leave, maybe even doing some part time, or won't look like I've stagnated- my predecessor without children stayed in this role for seven years. But if we decided to ttc in my last job, I could see how tempting it would be for me to take the back seat for a few years- I was just adamant I didn't want to be in that situation and so we waited.

In our friendship group with children, quite a few of the women are higher earners and the household burden does seem to be split equally. But I do wonder how you get there, and stay there, and what will change as time goes on and children get older- for now all of them have one child in primary, one in nursery and are both working full time.

When it comes to the toilet roll changing, etc etc - I actually think women can be our own worst enemies. My main concern about having the house spotless is other women judging me, I am much more relaxed when it's just us as I haven't internalised a lot of those rules. When it comes to presents, DH will remember his goddaughters birthday without prompting, but whereas I would spend some time researching mumsnet for good gifts for 8 year olds, he will pop into a convenient toy shop and pick something up. I do think that a lot of the wife work is a burden placed on us by society, and much of it is less necessary than we make out, and the rest needs to be shared and if it's done badly, so be it.

However- I'm in my mid thirties. I still see this dynamic playing out, though not as much close to me as in other generations. Which does beg the question of how long it will be before things change right throughout society and the unfair advantage doesn't continue being passed down.

Hey Orangealien why don't you read a book? And not '50 shades of grey'.

Kr1st1na - exactly. It's not a 'team' if it benefits one person and not the other. You've put it perfectly.

This also isn't about facilitating men to have successful careers. It's about facilitating men in ALL parts of their lives so they have more time and headspace for activities, for what they'd like to do and generally less 'weight on their shoulders'.

I wish there was more discussion about the repercussions of becoming a facilitating spouse because you damn well better choose the right (in most cases man) spouse. If it all falls apart you’re very exposed financially. I think it’s very easy to live separate lives when one stays at home and one does a high powered job travelling all over the place. You start to live in different worlds and it take conscious effort to stay close and feel part of a team.

And for love of all that is holy get married if only paper! I met a younger stay at home mom the other day who had given up her career and wasn’t married. I’m old enough now that I told her quite straight that she was being a fool and putting herself and children in a very exposed position. Either get married or go back to work. If The husband swans off she’s going to be well and truly fucked.

TheRealSlimShady do you not see the irony in saying "we are a team" in one breath and "I do all the boring financial admin shit" in the next. If you are married having stuff "in your name" means jack shit so don't be fooled in thinking that all that statement filing and hanging on telephones sorting it all out is purely for your benefit. It's wife work just like cleaning the toilet.

I just realised that I am a facilitator. I make sure his work clothes are clean and available. I plan the childcare. When he went for a big price motion I worded the answers to the questions he’d be asked. I Parented the children while he was away training mon-fri for 9 months. I take full responsibility for the mental load, children’s homework, school clothes, activities, birthdays. I don’t think we get enough recognition.

I think this is a great thread and I've been nodding furiously and saying "yes!" out loud throughout it!

One phrase I am taking away from this (apart from "facilitated man" which is genius) is this:

"In order to get ahead, he would need to stand on my shoulders"

I was a reluctant SAHM (long story short - made redundant 2 weeks after having first baby, PND, couple of miscarriages, fertility issues and then another baby) and whilst I really appreciated DH financially supporting the family I felt very unappreciated. I was always told by friends and family how lucky I was to have DH because he was fairly hands on but I can't remember anyone telling DH he was lucky to have me.

When I worked part time it was a real period of transition for us. Me getting used to work and DH realising that he was really going to start doing more of the grunt work at home.
Although it did take me having a huge screaming fit after coming home from work and the house was an utter shit hole - I told him that I wasn't his PA, nanny and housekeeper and if that was the way he saw me he could shove our marriage up his arse. And I bloody meant it.

I'm now full time, with professional qualifications and just about earning the same as DH. Now we are fairly equal on the housework front. But it has been a bit of a slog and maybe things are fairer because our children are in their teens now and don't need as much physical parenting.

I'm in the same position as you OP, single full time with 2dcs. I am also the only female who works ft in my company, everyone else is facilitating men.

It definitely pisses me off that so many women are happy to facilitate others/men. They are facilitating men who don't even appreciate it for the most part! I work with men who deliberately leave the office late so they don't have to do bath time, who cancel meetings at the last minute if they have been 'forced' to do a drop off, and are just generally resentful of anything that gets in the way of full concentration on their jobs while their wives are sacrificing everything to 'keep it all together'

Interesting thread and some valid points but life isn’t like this for everyone.

I work part time and dh full time, but you could turn it around and say he facilitates my life. Actually I think we facilitate each other.

I like working part time, I don’t wait on dh hand and foot, I don’t sort out his lunches and work clothes, I don’t remind him when it’s his mothers birthday. He is an adult and is responsible for himself.

I do take on more of the load with the dc but dh makes up for that when he’s home evenings and weekends. As for things like shopping, noticing we’ve run out of things, dh is more than capable of going and stocking up on milk and toilet roll.

I’m assuming forces women to have children with these incapable men who can’t wipe their own arses.

I really used to give myself a hard time for enabling clueless men. For a long time I thought it was normal, but once I realised what I was doing I still couldn't break the cycle because I was involved with men who had not been brought up to lift a finger around the house, yet if I didn't do everything, then it just wouldn't get done.
I never thought that life as a single mother would be easier but it truly is.
All I can do is raise my sons and daughter equally and properly so history doesn't repeat itself.

Wot Kr1stina said. In fact I may have to print it out and hand it to out to women who tell me they are a team
I never wanted the big corporate job, and I was always a lone parent so in effect never had to really deal with the dynamics of the male/ female marriage, but I see this all around me.
My good friend is a VERY high flyer (law/politics). She left having children late in part so she could get to a position of some influence, but her male bosses all had children and of course wives which enabled them to be totally free to pursue their goals.
Another friemd has a big job and a SAH husband, and he does facillitate her career, but even though she works hard and is away sometimes she is much more involved in domestic stuff than I have ever seen a man in her position be.
It's not just about work vs home life. It's all the thinking about others than women end up doing by default.
And it's also this assumption that women just love to be the facilitators. In my last job one of my male seniors brought his baby to work because his wife was ill..he handed the baby (with a full nappy) to his PA ( with whom I shared office space) and went off to a meeting. Cue crying and jiggling and general mayhem as he went off to do his job leaving "the girls in the office" to pick up his slack.
Later on I asked him if he couldn't have found a better solution. He looked incredulous. His home facilitator was broken, so what was he supposed to do?
I told him that as a single mother I had contingency plans in place for childcare and had never in 7 years brought my kid to work. He clearly thought I was a bitch, and possibly a bit unnatural, because women love babies don't they??

How did we let this happen?
I dont think women let this happen any more than women today 'let' the trans lobby erase all of our hard won rights, or Black people 'let' apartheid happen.
We constantly underestimate how far men are prepared to go to get their own way. Talk to your older female relatives about what their lives were like. There was a time in living memory when it was illegal for married women to work, or to work without their husbands permission. Your husband could empty your bank account or steal your house.

If you make it illegal for half the population to learn to read and write, work, or inherit large sums of money or property, thats a very effective system of control. The system hasn't dismantled itself just because its given a few inches and allowed us some basic rights.
Many men would rather insult their partner and trash their marriage than bother themselves with trivial details. Its apparently emasculating to put their balled up socks in a basket rather than drop them on the floor.
When we gained legal equality we changed but most men didn't. We got uppity, our expectations changed. What have men done other than continue to fight to keep themselves on top?

Dh and I are a team, but before life circumstances made me quite mentally unwell I definitely facilitated him.
We both decided that me being a SAHM was the best choice, as his job was more settled and better paid than mine was. We can't really afford for me to be a SAHM, but having two autistic boys who reached the point where they couldn't attend school meant there was little choice for me to work.
Dh now does the shopping, so he knows to check for loo roll etc, but he does like the shopping list to be a joint effort. If I'm away for a day he will still need instructions for things he doesn't usually do, eg when to pick up our youngest from school, how much to feed the dogs.
It took me being at near breakdown point for months though for this to happen, and I'm still often on the verge of meltdown.
Housework isn't an even split, and he can get annoyed that I haven't done as much as he thinks I should. I don't think he understands how hard it is constantly being with two teenagers who want to kill each other most of the time, and he resents me needing breaks from it, but I've got better at not trying to do stuff to please him all the time, and realise that he can meet his own needs without my input.
Without the boys and me reaching crisis point though I don't think this change would have happened.

DH and I are in our 60s with two grown up DSs who still live with us. I must admit that I am saddened that society has still not moved on from this facilitated man position.

Our lives have been rather different, for a number of reasons. DH and I met in the workplace and he earned a bit more than me. But we were already in our 30s and he had his own house (as did I) and had been brought up by his Mum to be very capable with housework and cooking.

When our DSs came along, I gave up work for seven years. DH, however, still did a lot: all of the food shopping and cooking, managing the finances etc. We have always split things like buying birthday presents and cards by whose family they are for.

When I went back to work at 40, I was lucky enough to slide back into my profession. Then we had a major disaster when DH lost his job due to his health collapsing. I became the major breadwinner and he took on the facilitator role for me and my career took off until I took early retirement when my health also went!

So, our lads have always seen us as a true partnership, with our roles being totally interchangeable. I never had to leave lists of instructions if I went away. DH always took a close interest in the detail of all our lives in the family and still does.

But I refuse to believe that I have married some kind of paragon of manhood! He has his faults, believe me. All men are capable of being fully involved in their families and it seems to me that it is laziness and entitlement that makes them think that they are somehow superior.

My late MIL once said that I was lucky to have DH. I replied that I wouldn't have given up my house and my independence for someone less than him.

I wish that these men could be left on the scrap heap of history!

Djbaggysmalls you’re right that women didn’t let it happen, but we do let it continue.

I think modern women have it shit. We are now expected to have careers, still keep house, be main carers to children, take on the mental load and still look pretty and well groomed too.

We are still judged on our

Well balls to that I say.

I have taken time out from work and am a faciilitator. I took time out which I have funded to spend time with my children.

I can not wait to go back to full time work even though I know it will be challenging in some ways for my young children but I am determined that they are not going to learn that women are only facilitators.

I also am freaked out by not working and the fact that I have no money coming in.

In the meantime I have noticed that my DH has done less and less and less around the house - he has not read to his children or done homework with them unless it is a weekend. This is also celebrated by others - comments like “isn’t DH doing well? Aren’t you luck to be able to stay at home? ( I am finding my time out).

I also find I am treated differently as a sahm sometimes.

I don’t know how single parents do it - but I have also had long stints of just me being at home as DH has travelled a great deal and have a large part done it all myself.

I will be interested if I get sexist comments when I look for work for taking the time out.

I also am conscious that when I go back to work full time I will be exhausted with long hours and probably doing housework up until the small hours of the morning as that is what I used to do and sometimes just stayed up all night.

I wish my DH would do more but I can’t be bothered having the massive arguments with him.

Yes yes yes to people who have female facilitation and do not even see it.

I worked for years in a male dominated environment and I think this 'facilitation' is definitely something that helps men climb the career ladder more quickly than women.

As well as the actual difference that it makes, I noticed a perception that men will have a 'facilitator' at home but that women won't as a result of which assumptions were made about the ability of women to take part in (career enhancing) out of hours activities. For example, I am aware of a week long overseas focus group that I was not asked to consider because my manager assumed that I would not be able to go since I had small children. I was actually told this by a more senior male colleague as an example of how caring and family friendly my manager had been! The man who was asked to go had children of a similar age to mine. I did actually have a DH who would have been more than capable of taking care of the children for a week, I am also aware of many other events/secondments etc where assumptions were made about whether I/female colleagues with children would be able/want to go. The assumption for male colleagues was that obviously they would have wives to take care of any domestic responsibilities.

The other aspect of this is that men in my work place expected that female colleagues would be happy to facilitate them as well. Not just women in a 'support' job either. Any roles/tasks that were necessary but not particularly career enhancing were mysteriously handed out to female staff (mentoring trainees, arranging training etc).

Of course "not all men" are entitled, willfully incompetant lazy arses (just like not all men are abusers and rapists) but enough of them are to make this a real problem for women as a whole

I could come on here and say "my DP is great and we are partners" (which I think, largely we are) but that doesn't mean that there aren't millions of men who are happily being facilitated even if their female partners plead that it was their choice too

gurlwiththecurl my in laws (who live far away) have a true partnership and what a wonderful relationship you have had.

I see my FIL jump up and help and both MIL and FIL worked full time.

When they come over to stay they both help so much and the other day FIL got OH and showed him all that they and me had done and told him that he should jump up and do stuff without being asked.

FIL explained that he had a demanding job and that all the housework and bringing up kids stuff that I do isn’t just my job but the job of running a household.