Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

[windygallows]

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

windygallows
melody your question doesn't make sense

I'll try again...

Why is it any of your business how another family chooses to live and work?

melody you start by acknowledging the privilege.

I'm white. That gives me an unfair advantage. I acknowledge that. I try where I can to change the balance. I don't just say oh fuck it we will never reach a mythical level playing field so why bother?

And I certainly don't concentrate on the few black people who gain by the current system to justify it as individualism.

Ditto being able bodied.
Ditto being rich.

A father should have exactly the same rights as a mother to leave and pay. It’s always the mums who take the time off

In the UK the parental leave can be taken by either parent or split between them. I had a male employee who twice took by far the greater bulk of it.

“It's love of course that drives a couple to marriage and/or desire to have children and family, but do you think men know that with that comes domestic support, a PA and an easier life in general? Do you think that's recognized in male culture or talked about even? Do men know that the answer to an easier life is one where facilitation is ensured? I'm genuinely curious.”

I don’t think it is recognised or talked about because it’s so normal for them. It’s expected that when kids come along they continue blithely unscathed. That someone else will deal with all the home stuff. That’s why they get pats on the back at work for being expectant fathers while women of a certain age are viewed with suspicion and immediately (if not overtly) sidelined when they announce pregnancy. I guess it’s less obvious in couples without kids because there is just less STUFF to do.

Why is it any of your business how another family chooses to live and work?

Oh Melody, if you have to ask this question then you're on the wrong thread.

What's your answer?

I don't think men do recognise it.

DH says the men around him never admit to be facilitated. Never admit how little time they spend with or doing things for their DC ( especially the day to day grunt work).

They're often vocal about how much they lurve them and often want loads . But it doesn't translate to action or even recognition of what action is being done for them.

When DH decided to change his working practices to spend far more time with DC he was told the Sky Would Fall. I was even warned of that by quite a few handmaidens.

The sky of course is still where it ever was.

sahms get NI contributions. It’s worked out based on child benefit.

Women who work full time and still do all the drudge work at home

Well that is an easy one to resolve. Just don't. It is your house , your husband or partner. You don't need a huge structural societal shift to stop being the one who is responsible for making sure the loo roll holder is filled.

In this case the personal is personal and perhaps the message will get through to your sons and daughters that this drudge work is shared - for example my son will never have seen me ironing his or his father's shirts.

Melody there's no such thing as free choice. Choice is determined by so many things and here by gender roles even if you are not aware of it. The fact that you are not aware of it (and yet it is driving you) proves the point.

The discussion on this thread is identifying those 'invisible' forces and making them visible in order to deal with them. You are derailing that.

I agree with the OP. Frustrating and depressing.

My sons have been ironing their own shirts since they were 10.

FeaFoutis

Melody there's no such thing as free choice
Have you chosen to believe that?

What's your answer?

The "answer" is society has to change by dismantling the patriarchy. This will happen however without any personal input such as working out how you are going to share raising children, allocation of household tasks or making clear that you do not agree to take on board all the drudge work.

Melody, I feel upon this thread because it was in recent threads but even I think you’re being deliberately goady.

Do you really not understand that society is built up of individuals and families, and the accepted norm within society is made up of how each of those individuals and family units interact.

Personally I find the feminist board slightly intimidating, because there are women on here who have done far more thinking about it than I have, but I still dip in and out to try and educate myself.

But what business is it of your's personally how I choose to live my life?

Agree so completely. Men who judge (eg) single parents for not being able to work. I'm a parent! I'm a big cheese, that proves being a parent is no impediment to working. This level of delusion is rife.

still wish - re your post around 7 am - you are right.
DP normally works from home most Weds and Fridays but if he can't he will TELL me I need to do pick up (after many years training he now mostly gives me more than 2 days notice). If I need him to do a different day, eg a Tuesday, I will ASK nicely .
I am the default parent.

The other aspect of this is that men in my work place expected that female colleagues would be happy to facilitate them as well. Not just women in a 'support' job either. Any roles/tasks that were necessary but not particularly career enhancing were mysteriously handed out to female staff (mentoring trainees, arranging training etc)

The thing with it being a structural issue, is that even if you have perfect "loo roll parity" (which rather trivialises other women's real concerns, Lass), you still need to deal with this, as @pleasewelcometherealme described earlier in the thread.

On the bright side, that broader awareness of structural issues has made me a fuck load more effective as a middle manager. I can see patterns, relationships, what will affect what. As well as putting in the fancy footwork needed to avoid "facilitation" tasks settling on my shoulders.

Which makes me think: totally not fucking surprising that more diverse boards make for more profitable companies.

I don't think it is in the least funny.

Women do childcare, housework, organise bills etc for the benefit of their children. They can’t stop doing it or their children would suffer.

The problem is with men who don’t contribute.

Op, you said you were a single parent. Do you share 50/50 with the father of your kids?

Even at board level when we have meetings the women tend to go and help get everyone drinks, I’ve asked the others to stop and let the men sort of the refreshments for a while.

Sylvia ex DP lives 6 hours away so I do it all myself. No family help as family live abroad except elderly father in London. It's difficult but not impossible.

This thread is interesting and the point about it not all being CEOs and high power lawyers/bankers is important.

I am self employed. I earn a reasonable amount (in the 30-35k band most years). Like most self employed mothers I cite self employment as flexible and good for family life. I can do school pick up most days etc.
On the other hand I am sick to the back teeth of hearing about how self employed fathers are so big and important and “run their own business” that they can’t possibly share family duties equally!
It’s a complete double standard. If you have a vague then running your own business makes you able to work round your family. If you have a penis then running your own business makes you too important to do family duties.

@MsAwesomeDragon I have 3 DC and have always worked full time but am often assumed to work part time. People say, you work three days a week, don’t you? And I say no, and they’re surprised. No one would EVER assume one of my male colleagues with similarly aged DC must work part time.