Men whose lives are facilitated by women - how did this happen??!

[windygallows]

Now that I'm in my mid-40s I look around at my peers and am astounded that so many men my age have their lives facilitated by women: wives who don't work or who work part time who manage the household and make lunch for their DHs and do all the childcare and prop men up. It's just amazing how many men have a leg up by this support.

And they become blind to what it's like not having that support. My boss has a female PA, two female assistants, and a wife at home who looks after the household - leaving him totally supported and completely free to focus on his job. He thinks he's responsible for his success and doesn't understand why others can't mimic what he's achieved or even the time he dedicates to work.

How did we let this happen? How did we create a situation where so many middle aged men have such a leg up over women because they've been given so much support?

I've put this in Feminism because for me this is a feminist issue. If anything this situation it creates an absolute imbalance in life but also in the workplace, with men given much more freedom to dedicate to work and devoid of many domestic responsibilities that burden women.

I've also put this in Feminism because I'm trying to avoid the usual comments by women like 'We're a team' (referring to her and her DP) or comments like 'It works for us' or 'DH works hard and makes enough for both of us - should I go out to work just because you want me to.' blah blah blah I appreciate too that some women benefit from a set up where a DP/DH is 'looking after you' when you then facilitate/prop up his life in return, but I'm not quite sure it's really helping anyone in the grand scheme of things.

For context I'm in my mid40s, single with 2DCs and work FT and definitely frustrated when I see the advantages that 'facilitated men' have in the workplace and in life.

Both my husbands treated me like a glorified husband and did not appreciate anything I did. I find it incredible they went to work intermittently yet I worked full time as a nurse yet I did all the gardening, cleaning, laundry, DIY and childcare and yet still they were not satisfied.
2nd husband I said to him right from the beginning I don't cook - I didn't fancy cooking any more. He made himself dinner every night and never once thought to make me any dinner.
I'm done with men now. I'm single and glad to be so. I will never again have a man in my life.
I see my working friends doing this too and I wish they would wake up!

speakout no one thinks it will happen to them. But I think here in Sweden the divorce rate is 50% or something. I certainly didn’t get married with the aim of getting g divorced, no one does. I certainly hope dh and I will make it, I love him dearly and he’s certainly a decent bloke.

At the same time, you never know what life is going to throw at you. Illness? Death? These things can happen, even to the most devoted couple.

The sahm model can work - of course it can. And when it works it can be great. At the same time, I’m now almost 40 and even at this age, I’ve seen several couples split up - in an awful lot of those cases, the bloke has behaved terribly , hiding assets, and generally leaving the ex wife financially and emotionally battered. It’s been unpleasant to see and I think it’s opened my eyes quite a lot.

I don’t think anyone on the thread is saying yoir personal setup is wrong - only that in general it’s the woman who gets the short straw if things go wrong. Long may it continue to work well for you.

Glorified husband!!! I meant servant.

This isn't about you. This is about most women. You can stand down if it's irrelevant.

@MoreProsecco - I know because I have done it. I wanted one night off from the bedtime routine. I wanted that feeling of being the special chosen people who are staying late and chatting with the CEO. It really isn't a massive grind and slog a lot of the time after hours. It suits the working partner to give that impression.

There is a weird power vibe that kicks in when you're pulling an all-nighter (or even an 11pmer). That your team is going to save this pitch, you're going to turn the client around, you're going to solve the problem that saves the company. It's faux heroics.

Yes, Jiggly, I can see that working long hours & chasing deals feeds the Male Ego. It’s a self-importance thing & meets their needs on different levels. Long working hours are often a choice. Especially when you have a facilitator at home.

@IrritatedUser1960

Im single and glad to be so. I will never again have a man in my life.
I see my working friends doing this too and I wish they would

I'm so there with you.

jiggly- no I won't stand down thanks.

I appreciate this thread is not about me- but surely it is about all women- not just some women?

And there have been some women on this thread who - like me- have had the SAHM experience work for them.

And yet you think we should be silenced?

Because all men will take advantage of that and use it as an excuse not to parent? That they are chasing a weird power vibe instead?

I think in dismissing those of us who do the SAHM thing and the men who facilitate us to do that- you are doing everyone a disservice.

I'm not saying you should be silent. But this thread is about three things:

1. That men who are very successful in their careers are facilitated in that success by their unacknowledged wives
2. That many women are very vulnerable in that facilitation role because it (generally) puts them in a very fragile position financially
3. That we - as a society - do not acknowledge that role and the enormous part it plays in ensuring men maintain their position as the mains earners, wealth creators and wealth owners.

Those three things remain true for an enormous amount of women, whether or not they apply to you on a personal level. As you've probably realised from my posts, they don't apply to me on a personal level either. But that doesn't mean they aren't relevant to many women. The number of women who have posted on this thread who have said it's acted as a wake up call demonstrates that. And I'm really pleased about that. Because it is absolutely something that financially dependent women need to think about and plan for - coldly and dispassionately.

jiggly- firstly you are not the thread police.

I don't dispute your points,
But it's not up to you to tell women what they need to do.
Even passionately or warmly.

@speakout

And there have been some women on this thread who - like me- have had the SAHM experience work for them.

But you aren't a SAHM, you work 20 hours? The SAHM scenario worked when I facilitated my DH career but then it stopped working when he left.

Bibbidee I was a SAHM for many years. My youngest is 17 I haven't worked at all for much of their childhood.

whatever

@speakout so if anyone younger/non younger mothers, considering being a SAHM asked you the pros and cons, of being a SAHM before they set out on their journey, you wouldn't mention the issues we discussed on this thread about the importance of maintaining their own financial security?

No, because it's none of my business.

And " financial security" is not so cut and dried.

Mumsnet is not representative of "most" women.
Millions of people don't have a career. They may work in Morrisons or a sandwich shop.

Even if they did have a career- their financial security is their concern.

I was willing to take the gamble.

Even those of is in FT WoH often facilitate our partners’ working and home lives. Eg by avoiding high profile jobs, travel, long hours, evening networking and extra working for our paid jobs AH when DC are awake. Carrying the “mental load” at home.

Taking the gamble is fine, but should be done with eyes open.

Good point dozer.

Judging by many threads here many women are working full time and still have the shitty end of the stick.

You're the one silencing women @speakout. You don't want to talk about this because it's making you uncomfortable.

What do you mean - financial security is their own concern? That attitude is what has seen women being stripped of all their assets. Because they/we don't have the networks and the language to discuss this stuff.

I don't know why you're so determined to shut this discussion down but I do wish you'd stop. We get that it's irrelevant to you. There are a lot more voices who are saying that it is relevant though. Can you please try to stop shouting over them?

dozer- but none of us can see into the future- even with eyes open.

If I had made my decision to be a SAHM based on the idea that my financial future was going to be fucked, my OH leave me and my career down the pan I possible wouldn't even had kids.

You can't possibly say that is an inevitability.

No one has says it is. But the odds of being better off financially whatever happens are improved by WoH.

@speakout you wouldn't have had kids? What about sharing the responsibility of working and caring for them equally?

What about sharing the responsibility of working and caring for them equally?

Equally doesn't always mean fairly.

Not everything has to be shared 50:50 to be fair.

Women feeling that they don't need to think / worry about money is a big problem.

My OH doesn't think about money much.

He earns it, but that's about it.

Is this a wind up?! 😁