Patriarchy

[DaisyRaine90]

Is it really so bad to have a patriarchal household??

I mean, feminism is about equality right so it should be 50:50 in diff households ??

Because in most relationships there is a more dominant figure. like that or not

Is it wrong to let your husband make the big decisions?

Your not an engineer probably because you never tried. This victim mentality is stupid and unhelpful

What it is is reality. Perhaps you can't see it because you are far too ingrained to even know what it is let alone that you are parroting it to all and sundry.

I am not an engineer any more because after all, life is too short to be battling with ridiculous prejudices such as yours. Life is good without it to be perfectly honest.

I'm baffled by the notion of a household having a "head". My grandparents definitely don't have a "head" of theirs either. I've never come across any households which have a "head", it seems quite odd to me.

You'll need to say more, daisy. It's impossible to answer your questions in isolation.

Ok, so me and DP make most decisions together but ultimately he has the say so on some things as the primary bread winner. we are both strong characters, but I am more flexible and also trust his instincts on a lot of things (eg. he chose our house, I got a say but he ultimately decided).
I also wanted to work Saturdays and he said I cannot due to his work commitments this year as he would not want the children to have half their weekend with a stranger (DD is at school weekdays). I took this on board but would have got Saturday childcare tbh. I understand his reasoning 100% but when our opinions differ on big things like that, he tends to win out.

Therefore I believe my household is to a certain degree Patriarchal. I don't have a problem with that, but grew up in a household where my mother (self branded Matriarch) would not do a single thing my Dad and post divorce step Dad asked or wanted her to do.

If DP says "unload the dishwasher please" I unload it. If I do the same so does he. But with the big stuff he often has the final say.

Whatever works for you. All I can say is from my perspective if my mum was like that I'd probably be a lot less confident and would be pretty shocked if I knew anyone with a household like that. To me personally the notion of a man ever telling me I "couldn't" do something would be horrifying and he'd not last seconds trying. I wonder what he'd think of someone in future telling your daughter she "couldn't" pursue her career ambitions, or anything else. He seems happy to stop you pursuing work you wanted to do but won't sacrifice his own when it's him who thinks the children should be with a parent at the weekends. I'd personally feel incredibly angry if my household was like that, and would lose respect for both parents.

I'm also going to complain to my parents that in other households the parents are unloading the dishwasher seeing as they seem to expect their offspring to do all these jobs. Strike forthcoming.

Tbf we couldn’t afford childcare on my income alone 😂

He does childcare 3 days a week already 😊 I’m probably being unreasonable.

He said he’d fund me through an internship etc. And he probably has a point. Using a nanny or au pair when we don’t need to so I can have a hobby job is probably ridiculous.

I still might do it though because Mummy strikes are very effective 😂

For someone raised in a house with a strong mother, you seem very submissive. Which makes me think she wasn’t an empowering feminist role model but a controlling bully. Women can be controlling bullies. So can men and it may be that you married someone familiar...

In our house if there was a discussion about work hours and childcare, it has recently gone like this... I say work might have more hours and I have found a place at after school care. DH and l look at the household budget. We discuss whether it will work practically. We discuss if DD will be happier. We talk about all the implications, we have similar outlooks so normally agree.

If we disagree whomever has more skin in the game ‘wins’. This particular time we agreed but I would ‘win’ because it affects me more. But when I was spending a lot of time travelling and DH’s work was adversely affected (while mine wasn’t really improving) he ‘won’ because he had more to lose. Ultimately no one decided for anyone else.

Some decisions take everyone agreeing (getting a dog), some just the person concerned (getting a tattoo) and some are discussed (getting a family holiday). It’s not hard.

“He said he’d fund me through an internship etc”

In my relationship this would be “we agreed that we as a family had the resources to fund me through an internship”

OP I'm just struggling to understand the wider significance of your decision to live a semi-surrendered-wife lifestyle.

Is it that you think you're a feminist? Or are aserting your right not to be a feminist?

I'm not really following your thesis.

OP, I think you sound a bit unhappy with your relationship but are convincing yourself that it’s ok because a) he’s the breadwinner and b) your mum has given you a bad idea of what feminism is.

But I’ll say this again, your Mum is not a feminist. Feminism is not about belittling men and exposing their incompetence (no matter what the media would have us believe). It is about equality short and simple. Equality of opportunity, equality of value, and equality of having your voice heard.

Your voice isn’t being heard by your husband. He doesn’t get to be the head because he is the breadwinner. He is as dependent on you as you are on him. He couldn’t work without the support you provide him. My mum has always been a SAHM. My dad respects the work that she does and vice versa. They are equals.

Wake up and smell the inequality, OP.

I’m asking if you can be ever be a feminist And let a man a) be the main breadwinner and b) make some of the big decisions financially.

I am very happy with my partner.
We argue constantly but then we are both strong characters and love a debate.

We talked about this thread though and he said I’m phrasing things badly.

Also, he thinks I make more decisions than him because although the big financial decisions are his, I have more say in the children’s upbringing and small purchases.

Also, a lot of what he’s doing now is to support my future career by giving me the opportunity to study.

I think this was kind of theoretical for the most part because it’s the first time in my life I have ever let a man make a decision for me. Maybe I’m coming round to it being an open debate and therefore sometimes his point wins out as it has more merit.

As a Previous post said, it’s whoever has the biggest stake who wins out.

I win most of the little battles but he’s won two bigger ones recently.

I’m in love with the new house though he made a good choice 😊

Plus I’ll have my own office/reading room, space for a piano and he’s building me a home gym so I think he deserves a medal on that one. He picked the house but made sure I got all the things I wanted in it 😊

I am reading a fabulous book ATM called "the Creation of Patriarchy" by Gerda Lerner.

Thoroughly recommend it for an explanation of it all.

I think this is why I don’t really understand this thread. I don’t recognise the “winning/losing” big/small “battles”. It just doesn’t happen. We express ourselves and discuss things and come to joint conclusions, it’s not
Me vs. Him and keeping score to make sure we “win” evenly.

Your problem OP seems to be that you think that it either must be Man In Charge or Woman In Charge and everyone else must kowtow to whomever it is. I just don’t see that in my relationship; we are a partnership and each of our opinions has equal weight. No one “wins battles”

So your main issue was him picking/buying a house with very little or no input from you?

I’m asking if you can be ever be a feminist And let a man a) be the main breadwinner

Of course.

and b) make some of the big decisions financially.

I honestly can't grasp how big decisions could be anything but joint.

How does it work? "I've chosen a house darling, we move in sometime end of next month"? I can't fathom one adult making major decisions that fundamentally affect two adults without some kind of discussion. It sounds quite lonely. So, yes, you've stumped me there. But I'm not sure it's anything to do with feminism. It just sounds strange and artificial.

I think I have a partnership. House purchases we decided together (with either having a veto - although it wasn't needed), but I've moved into a rented house that only he's seen and he's moved into a rented house that only I've seen - not because either of us is head of the household, but because we were very busy, and trust each other to make decisions that the other will be OK with.

Frankly the idea that either of us has a deciding vote over the big decisions terrifies me more than the little stuff! Buying cars and things we go into together (although I indulge him if he has some great desire, and we have enough money, as long as it meets my needs and requirements too). Moving country etc. decided together.

I suppose thinking about it, we assume each has good reasons, we discuss stuff, and it's more that we each have a veto rather than either of us can assert a positive over the other - eg. I could say 'we're not having a dog' and he couldn't say 'yes we bloody are' and just do it - and in return the same from me.

I honestly find the idea that because he earns more money than me (right now, this hasn't always been, and won't always be the case) he gets to override me, completely baffling. I'd be a pretty annoyed if he that over our choice of lunch venue, let alone something that actually matters!

Having said that, thinking about it, he did once come home with a red sports car (we'd discussed budget, but not actual car).. which I told him would be nothing but trouble, and so was his car and I'd use the other one. Reader, I was right. 3 months later it blew up half-way up the hill to home... of course I helped him out, and in the end we didn't lose too much when we traded it in for something that was much more sensible for our needs. Still, wasn't a head of the household decision - it was a wally who let his excitement over-take his head, and took a good ribbing about it after - so no deference at all.

Why, as an adult, would you ever let anyone else make a significant decision for you? It's an odd thing to do. As two adults that are equal in a relationship, my DP and me discuss any large decisions between us and agree on what is best for all of us. There's no winning or losing, or keeping track of wins/losses.

With the house purchase, are you a joint purchaser with your husband, or is it in his name only?

I think most feminists make 'unfeminist' decisions sometimes. I shave my legs. Would I in a feminist utopia? Probably not. I accept that it's a flawed decision to perform femininity when I wouldn't given the choice. But we live in the real world and not all hills are those you die on.

Would I let DH make the sole decision on where we lived? Fuck no.

As pp have said, this isn't a 'feminist' issue. From the little you've said, it sounds like you're recreating the dynamic of your childhood home in your adult home. You spent your childhood being dominated by your mother, now you're being dominated by your husband. I'd break this pattern (I don't mean leave) or you'll go through life being dominated and that kind of sucks.