#MeToo is trans-exclusionary and for white, cis, privileged women

[AssignedPerfectAtBirth]

www.bustle.com/p/some-members-of-the-lgbtq-community-feel-excluded-by-the-me-too-hashtag-its-a-reminder-of-how-important-inclusive-language-is-2953162?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=owned&utm_campaign=feminismbustle

Now if this article doesn't persuade women of the utter self centredness of the transactivists, nothing will

And I don't give a fuck what colour you are. But yes, by it's very nature a campaign highlighting male violence against women is going to be cis-privileged. Well, duh.

1DAD2KIDS

You are asking for a bit of give-and-take.

Let’s cut to the chase. Exactly how much give-and-take do you think women should provide?

Specifically.

Can I just ask 1 dad, if your challenge straight men on this subject. I have not met one single straight man who believes a transwomen is a woman. I am very confused as to why people start their campaign with feminists. I am quite happy for people to talk to women about this once they have convinced straight men. Happy to wait.

Its very easy to call for compromise and give and take when you as an individual do not have to give up anything. What compromises are MTT and men making?

And 'birth sex' isn't a thing.

dad

Make no mistake, you and other man are absolutely expected to start dating people with penises (should you be on the dating scene).

Laverne Cox, born a man, has stated that you need to overcome this silly insecurity and toxic masculinity.

Laverne spoke with Attitude magazine, about meeting straight men on dating apps. She claims that often times, when they find out she’s TRANS – they don’t want to date her anymore.

Here’s what she said, about those men: “They’re insecure as fuck. . . . There’s nothing wrong with [dating Trans women]. Toxic masculinity is bullshit.”

And, of course, with men transitioning younger and younger, straight men will definitely be encountering men they think are women. And very many transwomen see absolutely no reason to disclose their trans status. They get very, very angry with people who think they should.

Playboy, for instance, sees no reason why the sort of men who buy their magazine should not find their current centrefold, a man with a penis, as arousing as any woman. After all, it’s very difficult to tell. And by the time you can tell, in the bedroom, it’s all a little late. You’ve got a very aroused man on your hands who thinks you are a hateful bigot if you suddenly want to leave.

mtonews.com/mto-shocker-trans-actress-laverne-cox-says-straight-women-dont-date-t-girls-insecure-fck-suffer-toxic-masculinity-agree/

I’m a bit behind but I just can’t get over how Paris Lees says in her article about loving street harassment that women who say that men shouldn’t catcall women are infantilising other women and she ‘wasn’t brought up that way’. No, no you weren’t, you were brought up as a boy.

Sentimentallentil

I can’t read a single thing Paris says without, yet again, being struck by the idiocy of this ideology.

Paris loves to be objectified. Paris thinks women should be objectified. Paris objectifies.

So far, so misogynistic. But to pretend that this is the way a woman thinks, or should think, is ludicrous.

To then see Paris demanding they represent the viewpoints of women, is insane.

And the icing on the cake, is Paris disagreeing with, or criticising women who don’t buy in to this rank misogyny.

BigDeskBob fair point the trouble is everyone is a individual and every dynamic is different. But that does make it hard to find a way forward to find a situation that is good and fair to everyone. So I suppose that's where comprimise comes in. It intrests me the idea that women feel they are giving something up/sacrificing if they were to be more inclusive of trans people in woman spaces. I suppose if you beleive a trans woman is not in fact a woman then that would make sense. Personally I am currently of the thinking trying to break down the barriers of gender is best. But I know from what has been said that many on here feel the protection of women on spaces (based on birth sex more than gender) are vitally important to be protected. Sort of a proliferation of sex apartite. Having said that is a genralistic veiw and many of practicalitys (as many have mentioned) are a challenge and revert back to the ideas to what extent do you support the needs of a minority against the feelings of a (possibly more privalided) majority? I'm not sure many on here would agree with you that birth sex isn't a thing.

I didn't realise Paris reflects all transwomen? I suppose then Kattie Hopkins represents all women?

Yes gender does definitely 100% need to be broken down, but how exactly does the trans movement achieve this??

And actually Paris is often brought out as a spokesperson for trans people, about two weeks ago she was the trans voice on a debate about no platforming on newsnight.

And no a biological male can never become a biological female.

The reason why women feel that they would be giving up something by allowing trans women into women’s spaces is because they WOULD be giving something up, something pretty fundamental and important. We’d be giving up the right to be able define biological female as a class, if biological female also includes biological males then what does it mean? We would essentially not be allowed to ever meet in a space without biological males being allowed to be present, that’s pretty fucking big.
If the class women also includes biological males then how are we supposed to accurately present the violence against biological women and if we can’t name it how are we supposed to fight it?
It’s literally the irradication of biological women as a class and you can’t see why we should just shuffle over and let them play so we don’t hurt their feelings?

Also piss off with the idea that being a woman is a privilege

dad

You don’t have to take Paris as an example. Take any representative of transwomen. They all say the same.

Indian Willoughby the other day on TV talking about sexual harassment of women, and not getting it. Because he’s a man. There isn’t a woman alive who doesn’t get why he doesn’t get it!

98% of sexually violent crime is committed by men. 90% of violent crime is committed by men.

No, we don’t want men in our spaces. No, men aren’t women.

Transwomen commit sexual crime at exactly same rate as any other man.

85% of transwomen retain their male genitalia. A significant majority remain attracted to women.

What is it about women saying no, and defending their boundaries that you find troublesome?

Why do women have to defend the word no, suddenly?

DAD
No dicks.
That's it.

We don't want people with dicks in our changing rooms. We don't want people with dicks watching us getting changed. We don't want to see dicks unless we say we want to see dicks.

When a woman has been raped, she does not want to be a rape crisis centre with a person who has a dick. She does not want to counselled by a person who has a dick.

A woman prisoner does not want to share her cell with a person who has a dick.

Women don't want their medical statistics skewed by people who have dicks

People who have dicks benefit from testosterone making them stronger, faster, with more muscle and greater bone density than those who have a vagina. Therefore people with vaginas should compete with other people with vaginas and people with dicks should compete with people with dicks.

Most importantly, some people with dicks use their physical advantage to force their dicks into the vaginas of people with vaginas. If ANY person with a dick is allowed to say they are the same as the people with vaginas, then some of the people with dicks will say that they are the same as the people with vaginas, in order to use their physical advantage to force their dick into vaginas

AssignedPerfectAtBirth

Well done. It’s painful, isn’t it?

Got it. If you are born with a dick you have no place in women's spaces, you'll never be a woman (however much you may feel you are simply born in the wrong body)? So chances are because you are born of the violent birth sex you are a risk to women or at least a reminder of male aggression thus not welcome?

Or is there a point when you can prove your woman enough to join the club? If so what criteria do you need to be accepted?

Must admit I am glad I am not transgender. Sounds a tough world out there. Not convinced in the game of privileged top trumps that trans gender people are necessarily more privileged that the average women? But based on what's been said I sure they'll be a good argument to why they are?

By the way I'm not necessarily saying your wrong. You make sound arguments based on biological forces that despite however inconvenient in this world obsessed by identity politics. Biological factors that still affect to a certain degree many sports, employment in certain jobs as well as who can use what changing rooms. The trouble is still this is not a simple issue. So there maybe a certain amount of playing devils advocate as I test ideas and work it out.

Sorry Dad you are talking bollocks. It IS about biology, pure and simple and no, there is no , there is no point when you can prove your woman enough to join the club. The 'criteria' is having female reproductive organs and XX chromosomes. If you don't have them, you are not a woman. It's a one way valve

It IS simple. You complain about identify politics, so stop muddying the waters when it the biology is crystal clear

I would also like to point our that there has been an almost honour code arrangement between women and trans women for years and this pushing for self identification and gender identity trumping sex is actually harmful to transwomen as it means that women are becoming far more critical.

Wait a minute Dad, do YOU think you can change your biological sex?

How do you know you’re a man?
Could you please define what makes you a man that doesn’t rely on biology or gender stereotypes?

Ok, #me too snowballed as a result of the almost 100 now stories of women being (allegedly) sexually assaulted by HW. Stories by many different women at many different points in time that all support each other in terms of the types of things he did. Some have witnesses (the police taping, Daryl Hannah had her makeup artist with her when he barged into her room, assistants have spoken out).

If It becomes law that you can just self identify as female (whilst looking exactly the same and retaining your penis) and then to misgender you is a hate crime, what's to stop someone who is being accused of sexual harassment /rape self Identifying as female then crying hate crime at all the women they've abused? Because their stories involve naming the MAN involved? Genuine question. Seems like an excellent ploy and really what do you have to lose if you don't have to actually change anything? In fact, it'd be a way to continue to exert power over your victims.

Dad
"So chances are because you are born of the violent birth sex you are a risk to women or at least a reminder of male aggression thus not welcome

I'm not sure if I'm reading tone into this, but the facts are that men are of the class who rape and women are of the class who are raped. Not all men rape. Not all women are raped. I did not have a choice to be in the class of people who can be raped but I have been raped. You did not choose to be in the class of people who rape, but you do not rape. All these things are true.

If you accept the premise that rape is a 'bad thing' and that preventing rape is a 'good thing' then in order to reduce the opportunity for rape to occur, separation is sometimes necessary where women are vulnerable.

So chances are because you are born of the violent birth sex you are a risk to women or at least a reminder of male aggression thus not welcome?

Not every man is a risk, obviously. But women have no way of telling a predator from a non predator. You don’t come with a label.

dad

Being wary of males in a vulnerable situation isn’t something that women decide. There is no training, it’s not a collective set of rules.

It’s utterly instinctive. It starts when you’re about eight years old.

FFS this is ridiculous really. A simple questin for dad.

Do you believe we should have sex segregation in
Loos
Changing rooms
Sport
Prisons

Do you believe either sex should be able to ask for a same sex counsellor/doctor?

If not, why not. And explain what this has to do with 'gender' (which is simply personality and dress sense)

How would you feel if you asked for a male doctor for a prostate exam and you were sent a transman. Hows about if the transman was obviously female (as a lot of transwomen are obviously male)? How about if the person 'passed' then you found out afterwards they were female..would you feel violated...tricked?

It really comes down to if you believe SEX (note not 'gender') is important in certain areas of life. A lot of males do not think it is, as they do not feel threatened by women. A woman in a mans changing room for example would not be 'scary' overall...some of the men might be uncomfortable for privacy reasons, but its not scary for them. A few of the men may actually be very happy with a female in their changing room...

So do you believe sex is relevant in certain areas of life, or not?

This is the only question thats necessary on these matters really. If you don't think its necessary, fine. I disagree with that given crime stats and expriencing life as a female, but I can understand it in a way and at least it makes your views consistant. And if you do think its necessary, what sense does it make to make exeptions to this? As exceptions basically means, no sex segregation.

I think that rather than lecturing women on why we are so transphobic, men should lead by example and show us that they see MTT as women. Why not be nice to MTT and not laugh or harm them? Why not proudly date and marry them? I would be delighted if all women in porn were to be replaced by MTT.

Until straight men treat and use MTT like they treat and use women and girls they can fuck off with the fake 'I just want to understand' questions and observations.