Owen Jones is Having a Tantrum

[doctorcuntybollocks]

continued

Be aware, women, that he will have got a Google alert about this thread, because the sad little man vanity searches his name.

He really does hate women as well, unless those women have cocks*, and then he's all ears for them. You'd think, with his volte-face over his politics, and his fairly awful views on working class people, that men would see through his particular brand of bullshit, but apparently not. Must be super to be able to go to a dick swinging contest like his echo chamber.

*I am well aware that the one cannot, by definition, have the other, never fear

with fingers curled towards my thumb, creating a little circle

He's an idiot - can we all self-identify as gay men and clog his Twitter with demands for him to appreciate our hunky man vaginas?

Sadly MissDreamGirl, he sees that as a terribly homophobic question, because, while he insists that transwomen are and always have been women, transmen simply don't make the cut as men in his little mind.

Xenophile then maybe he will learn something. (Not holding my breath, because as you say, we're only women so our opinions don't make any impression on him.)

Beyond

Aw, Owen, diddums

He's gone full petulant misogynist.

I'm beginning to think I prefer the old fashioned direct misogyny to this newer gaslighting kind.

Well 10 minutes on the Twitter replies to Owen's linked tweet above were an eye-opener. Fucking batshit! All the centrist/leftist bunfighting is bonkers but it was good to see some of the male tweeters understanding women's legitimate concerns and the relevance of biology. Some good links on there too.

I'm beginning to think I prefer the old fashioned direct misogyny to this newer gaslighting kind.

I hear ya!

beyond

Ha, Beyond I laughed aloud.

My twitter is in my own name so I cannot I've had a wine join lurch into the twitter discussion, but my fingers itch to add to this thread:
twitter.com/DAaronovitch/status/916380926699073536

The quoting of dodgy suicide stats/threats is really disturbing, in this and the OJ thread above, e.g.: Believe it or not some ppl thought it was worth finding out why trans people try to kill themselves at such high rates. Answer: transphobia

I don't think these stats have any foundation other than the 27(ish) person self-reported NHS/Mermaids study, and the more recent Stonewall trans teens self harm survey. Have I missed something?

We seem to have lost the concept of "correlation is not causation". And responsible reporting to avoid suicide contagion. And as a proportion of young trans people (or all trans people as Owen J quotes) are experiencing mental health issues, we should all advocate for their being able to access proper support for them. I assume women "centrists" shutting up wouldn't normally be part of that mental health support package.

There is no evidence that New Statesman articles lead to suicide attempts.

And what the jeff is this "History will judge" concept that people now haul out to justify a shit opinion?

And what the jeff is this "History will judge" concept that people now haul out to justify a shit opinion?

Yes, they never seem bothered about history judging their own misogyny, homophobia and transing/sterilising of gay/autistic/GNC children, do they?

Just reminds me of children in the playground going "if you don't like One Direction you're SAD and NO-ONE WILL BE YOUR FRIEND ANYMORE"

The self-harm statitistics always read as slightly dodgy - and I do wonder if traits of emotionally unstable personality disorder play a part, as diagnostic criteria includes both frequent self-harm and suicidal thoughts as well as an unclear and changeable view of self and sexuality

patient.info/doctor/emotionally-unstable-personality-disorder

The constantly quoted stats are a deliberate misreading and miscalculation of a small self-reported study. There are enormous problems with the way the recent Stonewall study was interpreted. Suffice to say that if I produced stats that skewed, it wouldn't pass peer review and I'd never get work in academia.

None of the above paragraph means I have no sympathy for people with GID.

Owen Jones is on a massive anti-centrist mission at the moment. They talk about radicalisation when it comes to alt-right and Islamic extremists, but I wonder what meetings Jones has been to.

Allegations of transphobia is a stick with which to beat left-of-centre liberals. It's part of the current Momentum narrative attempting to undermine moderates in the Labour party. Red Tories and all that. It's a traditional straw man approach - the hard left are claiming that their liberal leftish enemies are the true enemies of the people, when it's the nastier element of their own "party within a party" that's riddled with misogyny and anti-semitism.

It's no surprise these Twitter comments come now that the anti-semitism of socialism's past has raised its head once again.

English politics is in the toilet right now, with both main parties being torn apart by increasingly nasty internal conflicts. Vote Tory or Labour at the next GE and there's really no way of knowing what sort of government you'll actually end up voting into power.

A LOT of women have left or are quietly leaving Momentum over the trans stuff. (I have and I know of many more.) It's only the very youngest women - 16-24 - that seem to be on board with it. 25+ and people start having babies and losing jobs and material reality (and therefore the biological basis of women's oppression) comes knocking. I know women who were vocal transactivists 3-4 years ago who have withdrawn from the whole enterprise. They are mainly doing it quietly to avoid reprisals, which I understand but I think we all need to be braver and openly name this doublethink as the social control it is.

I was an avowed trans-ally myself, before I knew anything about transactivism or experienced its effects on my own community. I am still committed to dignity, safety, access to law, education and housing etc for trans people, naturally.

There's something gone wrong with our inter-generational conversation as women. I think it's no accident that it's always older women who are being kept away from uni students.

Vote Tory or Labour at the next GE and there's really no way of knowing what sort of government you'll actually end up voting into power.
Totally agree, as a centre voter (boo hiss) I have no idea who I would vote for if there was a GE tomorrow

I was an avowed trans-ally myself, before I knew anything about transactivism or experienced its effects on my own community. I am still committed to dignity, safety, access to law, education and housing etc for trans people, naturally.

Apologies for pulling out bits from other people's posts all over the place but I'm fairly new to reconsidering this (and other) issues myself and grateful to other posters for expressing ideas and feelings that help me make sense of it.

It's reassuring to read other posters expressing their misgivings over the new trans activism. I'm sure I'm not alone in having felt the need to thoroughly and honestly examine my response to it for evidence of flat-out bigotry, and to rethink my position going forward.

hipster I think that's the path way to TERF dom. Get told you are bigoted for saying something fairly innocuous (in my case saying trans women and women aren't the same). Go and look for some evidence to see if you were inadvertently being bigoted ("check your privilege"/"educate yourself"). Run into trans politics (lady sticks/Danielle Muscato/Stefonknee Wolscht/Jazz Jennings SRS/queer trans lesbians/Ada Wells). Full on TERF.

History will judge us for not teaching kids basic biology and encouraging them to be boxed into sexist stereotypes.
Can you imagine how a child would feel when they realise that they have been lied to and they could be fine without 'drsssing like a boy' or they could be a lesbian or just be themselves? I am. It surprised kids are confused and self harming.

YY Quentin, they have no idea, because they block, no platform and refuse to engage with even mild criticism, how self defeating that is.