Why are feminists so aggressive?

[BertrandRussell]

This, or something like it, it always being asked. People say that the FWR board on here is scary and hounds out people whose faces don't fit. That women are always being told they can't be feminists if.......And so on. And so on.

In my experiences, you are much more likely to get an aggressive response if you express a feminist point of view than the other way round. Is it just me? Or am I missing something?

There have been plenty of interesting feminists threads recently, where everyone seems to be holding their own- but the same old accusations keep coming up.

Just came to say fuck off - feel a sense of disappointment now

"No, you aren't 'held to a higher standard' , just when asking why would she say that, to be told I'd have to 'ask her' is rather dismissive and not at all helpful. As you well know."

She's a controversial figure who likes a sensationalist comment. How did you expect me to know why she said it? How would you have liked me to reply?

Incidentally, Greer was much more thoughtful and sympathetic to Diana than the men on the panel.

I agree Sophokles, and now we are being picked up on the mildest turns of phrase discussion will become impossible. The two things I have been called on in the last hour or so are examples of this.

I agree SophoclesTheFox Great post.

"As I said it's fine to be argumentative and confrontational here, I couldn't care less, just stop trying to pretend you aren't."

Before I reply, do you mean "you' as in me personally, or "you" as in feminists?

But what you are in essence arguing DamnFineCherryPie is that if a woman was at one time deemed to be a feminist writer and then says something outrageous about a prominent female figure, who was a vessel of the state, now dead, then it is the most outrageous and misogynist thing a person can do.

My lady brain isn't computing. Can you help me please?

*Sarcasm

So basically you're saying that feminists can't respond to anything in any but the most emollient terms. Because if "I don't know- you'll have to ask her is even worth commenting on as an example of feminist aggression, I'm honestly not sure how to carry on with the discussion!

And you are ignoring the rest of the interview.

Uh not got to the end of the thread yet but Greer didn't say Diana was the worst fuck in the country. She said
but it's interesting to think would we still like her if she was 56? And I think we probably wouldn't, we didn't even like the Queen when she was 56. We don't like middle-aged women very much. How would Diana have middle-aged?....what would the tally be of the men who had dumped her by that stage? It would be 40 or 50 probably. Worst f**k in the country, by all accounts.

I think she was saying that society doesn't value women over 50 and doesn't value women who have had "too many" sexual partners (certainly if its an older woman being open about her sex life) so our views on Diana today if she was still alive would be different.

The mirror then used a section of what she said out of context as a headline and people cba to read beyond the headline before they get offended.

If Germaine Greer was a man we would cut her a lot more slack for being misreported.
Anyway off to finish the thread

but it's interesting to think would we still like her if she was 56? And I think we probably wouldn't, we didn't even like the Queen when she was 56. We don't like middle-aged women very much. How would Diana have middle-aged?....what would the tally be of the men who had dumped her by that stage? It would be 40 or 50 probably. Worst f**k in the country, by all accounts

Even in context it is a pretty awful thing to say. The country doesn't much like Diana's former sister-in- law for her propensity for free-loading and general pointlessness but there is nothing like that level of contempt.

As for not liking the Queen when she was 56- that would have been in 1982 - 5 years after the silver jubilee.

I'm not sure who this "we" is of whom she speaks. In my lifetime the country has divided into the group who think the monarchy is wonderful and the group who think it is a waste of tax payer's money- nothing to do with liking or disliking a middle aged woman.

I didn't hear the debate. She could have made a valid point that the country may well have lost interest in Diana, who knows, but the hyperbole of 40 or 50 men (a new man less than every 6 months?) makes her sound ridiculous.

Ah well. I think Germaine is very clever at saying shocking things to try to provoke thought, I think that's what she was doing here. Yes it is a disgusting thing to say, but the point is that's what people say about older women every day. She's trying to shock people into thinking about that.

Given what people said about Diana when she was alive, I don't think what Germaine anticipated they might say now was too much of a stretch.

But I'm one of those Greer fans so....

No. I'm saying it's fine for anyone to be argumentative, get heated and be sarcastic, just stop pretending you don't do it

Oh good. Because there is a lot of that happening on this thread, along with comments that could be construed as aggressive and they seem to be being made by those who are challenging feminism as much as I can make sense of some of the .

but the point is that's what people say about older women

And who are these people?

Here is a random selection of women who are famous and have at some point been 56

Helen Mirren
Judi Dench
Joanna Lumley
Chrissie Hynde
Joan Bakewell
Helena Kennedy
Helena Bonham Carter
Hilary Mantel
Deborah Harry
Sarah Ferguson
Have "people" said similar about them?

I am not denying some people say sexist things - but that does not justify this level of hyperbole.

Oh come off it lass
All that media articles about "cougars" for one. The fact women over 50 are largely invisible from film and TV with a few notable exceptions.

You think women over 50 are represented fairly and equally with men over 50?

You think women over 50 are represented fairly and equally with men over 50?

I didn't say that. So far as your examples of media articles about "cougars" - don't know - I don't go looking for such publications.

Still does not merit the hyperbolic nonsense Greer came out with. What debating point was she trying to make? Whatever it might have been has sunk like a stone.

Haven't read the recent posts yet.

I think people just like arguing with feminists. It's so rare anywhere to just get a feminist discussion without it going wildly off track.

It's just like Im religious but some atheists seem determined to argue with me despite my not wanting to.

We have been given a bad press now some people see it as their life's work to argue with the feminists.

You think women over 50 are represented fairly and equally with men over 50

I find watching these older male actors in action movies anxiety raising. Bruce Willis goes to leap over the hood of a car and I'm hoping he doesn't blow out his knee. At our age that kind of thing doesn't heal so quickly.

I think there was a discussion re handmaidens some time back?

The idea of patriarchal bargaining might help here.

www.jstor.org/stable/190357?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

I think this board has a lack of self-awareness. For instance, the 'OK I'm a man now, join me?' thread is a huge pile-on of women mocking men, ridiculing masculinity and belittling their partners. But then when someone mentions the man-hating aspect of your philosophy you act bemused as though such a thing appalls you.

I mean, hate men all you want, it's your board, but please don't try and pretend your bigotry isn't real.

Twibble, if you are a Mumsnet regular, you will know that there are daily threads about how useless men are, how they cannot cook, clean, look after children, remember birthdays, buy presents, make social arrangements, get all their pee in the loo, resist looking at porn, say no to going to a lap dancing club if their friends suggest it and so on. These things are unquestioningly accepted as facts by most of the posters in either mild exasperation or in an "oh bless"" spirit. This seems to me to be much more damaging and man despising, if not man hating, than jokey a thread which was, when I looked at it, mocking stereotypes which are as damaging to men as they are to women.