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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transgender rapist moved to women's prison segregated after unwanted advances

114 replies

Collidascope · 06/09/2017 07:22

www.cetusnews.com/news/Transgender-rapist-lag-%E2%80%98put-in-segregation%E2%80%99-over-%E2%80%98sexual-advances-to-female-prisoners-.BkeCnqnht-.html

Rapist decides to change sex in prison, gets moved to women's prison, and then starts making 'unwanted advanced' on the women there. Wow, who could have seen that coming?

OP posts:
Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 06/09/2017 09:01

Dont yell at me...i dont mean it

But thats what people are going to say

Ereshkigal · 06/09/2017 09:03

It's interesting that MTF were allowed in women's prison because otherwise it would hurt their feelings. Nobody gave a toss whether having a rapist in women's prison hurt the female prisoners feelings.

Isn't it just. One would be very wrong to draw any conclusions about it though, I'm sure.

CosmicPineapple · 06/09/2017 09:06

The few transwomen I know do think this free for all is damaging. For females and the trans community.
However speaking out means they are faced with threats and violence from transactivists.

Men doing what men do best using violence and the loudest voice to get what they want. Women are just the fodder that gets wasted in the process.

WillowWeeping · 06/09/2017 09:08

However speaking out means they are faced with threats and violence from transactivists

Welcome to the world of women!! FFS Angry

CosmicPineapple · 06/09/2017 09:09

Ironic isnt it Willow Sad

Flyingflipflop · 06/09/2017 09:11

Datun

Just for info.

Male jails and female jails are set up in similar ways. They will have a segregation unit (seg) and often a healthcare unit. Healthcare is supposed to be used for people with severe mental health problems and seg is for those who need to be removed from prison population either for a period of punishment (sorry, care and separation these days!) or for their own or others protection.

Some prisons will have a Vulnerable Prisoners wing for prisoners who may be at risk from other inmates due to their crime or other factors such as having been a police or prison officer. Some jails are set up solely for VPs, although these are male due purely to numbers.

To my mind I can't ever see a transgender wing (certainly in the short term) being set up due to numbers. The cost would be prohibitive. So what to do with transgender?

You can't seg them for too long unless they are a danger. Seg is heavily controlled and overseen right up to ministerial level. Time in there has to be kept to a minimum.

Healthcare is always short on spaces and it wouldn't be the right place for the other inmates. Helathcare admission is done on clinical need.

VP wing? Often holds quite dangerous and manipulative sex offenders. The risk to a transgender person could be huge. So you are left with two conflicting issues. Keeping the transgender person safe and keeping the rest of the population safe. A difficult balance to keep and I think one you can only manage on a case by case basis.

As for this case, I imagine they were transferred to female because someone had to make the call on whether it was safe or not for them to remain in a male jail and whether it was safe for the females of the receiving jail. Not an easy decision. I imagine he was transferred with heavy notes saying 'Keep a close eye on him'.

Bronzefield have and now he's in seg. Out of a difficult situation, they seem to have done the right thing.

Flyingflipflop · 06/09/2017 09:12

Shit! Sorry for the essay!

QueenLaBeefah · 06/09/2017 09:20

But from what you're are saying Flyingflipflop MTF are being transferred to women's prisons because it is the cheapest option and fingers crossed that nothing goes wrong.

stealtheatingtunnocks · 06/09/2017 09:21

Thanks for that, Flying.

I do think, though, that whoever makes the decision to house a person with a violent, predatory past alongside women with histories of sexual assault (the female incarcerated population scores higher than average for VAW), well, that person needs a swift kick to the shins to fix their stupidity.

It is inhumane to house rapists with women who have been raped.

QuentinSummers · 06/09/2017 09:25

Hmm. I imagine there are a lot of men not safe in male jails. There must be other ways to keep them safe than the women's prison.

TimbuktuTimbuktu · 06/09/2017 09:27

The solution to one fox being picked on by the other foxes is not to move him into the hen house!

Especially when the only reason he is there in the first place is for crimes against chickens.

FruitCider · 06/09/2017 09:27

Why on earth did they move a rapist with a penis to a female prison?!?!?

Flyingflipflop · 06/09/2017 09:28

I can't say what the thought process behind it is. It will be a multidisciplinary approach and one that involved the sending jail, the receiving jail and HQ. You'd possibly need to kick a dozen or more people in the shins!

As for cost, places in a female jail are over twice as expensive as male and anyone receiving a person needing lots of medical care/work would need to factor in the costs of staffing that. Hospital visits are great for officers wanting a new kitchen or car but costly for the jail!

Someone mentioned feelings above. Feelings have little to do with transfers. Safety, discipline and order take priority.

Datun · 06/09/2017 09:30

Thanks Flyingflipflop. I was hoping someone would come along with some more in-depth knowledge.

So transwomen sex offenders are a specifically double edged sword, in terms of their vulnerability to attack, and their potential to attack women.

I do see the difficulty.

Although, on the one hand you have a suspicion that they are transitioning purely to get an easier life in a female prison, or to access females. And on the other hand, wonder why they make such a big deal out of transitioning, as it leaves them so vulnerable to attack.

And of course, no one can suggest they are transitioning for an ulterior motive, because that would be the height of invalidation.

Do you have any ideas ?

Blanchefleur · 06/09/2017 09:34

Datun: Far from being the most oppressed people on the planet. I keep encountering transwomen who have more clout, not just than women, but than other men, too.

THIS.

The increasing determination to give men unrestricted access to women and girls. The repetition of the belief that a man is a woman if he says he is. I just cannot understand how this collective taking leave of your senses has suddenly arisen. Who has the power to push this agenda, and why?

“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” (Voltaire)

Flyingflipflop · 06/09/2017 09:43

I'm going to duck whilst saying this! Actually the transgender problem in jails is a bit of a symptom.

The problem is a deskilling of Prison Officers. Nobody cared about screws. You only have to look at the fictional portrayal. Stupid. Crooked. Thugs. The truth is far from that. You walk in each day and are surrounded by criminals. You're in a hostile environment. Like many public sectors costs were cut. The old officers left and new ones come in on vastly cheaper wages, and fewer of them.

As a screw you're used to problem prisoners. You know your wing. You know your prisoners and you know who to ask what dramas are going on. If this prisoner had landed on my unit (and I have dealt with a remarkably similar case) we knew what they were up to. We could see the manipulation, the conditioning and we stopped it. Everyone wants an easy life, and a harmonious wing makes for that!

Pay the screws a decent wage and you'll get decent staff who stick around.

QueenLaBeefah · 06/09/2017 09:56

I completely agree that prison officers should be paid much more and we need more of them.

Youremywifenow · 06/09/2017 09:58

Tangental Qs for Flyingflipflop, why do places in women's prisons cost twice as much as in men's?

Have you had any experience of dealing with transmen in male prisons? What safeguarding would be put in place?

Your comments are really interesting.

WillowWeeping · 06/09/2017 09:58

The solution to one fox being picked on by the other foxes is not to move him into the hen house!

Especially when the only reason he is there in the first place is for crimes against chickens

Quite right timbuk and the last piece missing from your statement is likely the only reason the fox is getting picked on is because he's committed crimes against chickens.

The man's a fucking rapist and a particularly brutal and sadistic one given his sentence. Even other men are capable of recognising that a rapist is a piece of shit and I imagine treat him accordingly.

How his safety can be put above those of the numerous women he now comes into contact with beggars belief.

Datun · 06/09/2017 10:00

Pay the screws a decent wage and you'll get decent staff who stick around.

Totally. Also many other similar jobs. Woefully underpaid.

We could see the manipulation, the conditioning and we stopped it.

This is interesting. So you were completely able to tell that someone was the swinging the lead?

Because, I see a lot of awful misogynistic men who have transitioned, but according to Stonewall and the ideology in general, an ulterior motive can't exist. Literally. If you are trans you are trans. They do not, ever, need to provide a justification. Even if it is patently obvious that there isn't one. Immaterial.

sauceyorange · 06/09/2017 10:00

Slight tangent but what on earth was the 10,000 spent on if not a penis removal?

Very interesting info flipflop thanks

CosmicPineapple · 06/09/2017 10:02

Pay the screws a decent wage and you'll get decent staff who stick around.

I can see what your saying Flying and my understanding of the prison system is very limited.

That said women prisoners should not be put at risk because prison officers are not paid enough.

WeeMadArthur · 06/09/2017 10:06

I don't think that anyone convicted of a violent sexual offense like rape should ever be funded for a sex change. How can you possibly identify as female if you have used your penis to force yourself on someone?

SpaghettiAndMeatballs · 06/09/2017 10:06

One thing I'm seeing being taken for granted here is that a trans prisoner is more vulnerable than a non-trans one.

Is that really the case? This person still had his penis, was still the same size, wouldn't significantly weaker than another man. If he was on hormones he might have started growing (very small - from what I understand, older transwomen don't generally have significant breast growth) breasts - but then again, there might be many prisoners with moobs - what is it that is making him suddenly more vulnerable than any other male prisoner - plenty of whom could have physical or mental health or issues?

Datun · 06/09/2017 10:06

sauceyorange

I agree, it seems an awful lot. You will have feminisation surgery, to the face, for instance. Shaving of the Adams apple, slimming down the jaw line, etc. And hormones, of course.

From what I understand from another thread, transwomen in male prisons get £25 a week for cosmetics and toiletries.

Although perhaps Flying will confirm that. Because it seems like an awful lot to me.

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