Quick - having feminist debate with DS1(14) - I need some statistics

[PacificDogwod]

Could somebody help with some links re wealth distribution between men and women world-wide? Health? Crime statistics?

Much appreciated

Feminists want to get rid of boys & men?! Gosh, the push for equality really does highlight the hatred of the loss of privilege, doesn't it?

Anyway, stats on who is actually got rid of:

www.unfpa.org/gender-biased-sex-selection

Thanks, pacific, I can see the funny side of being called "old school" anything at the grand old age of 56

first

Your post reminds me of something I read on here:

"when you are accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression".

IME teenage boys who get sucked in by youtube admit that women might have it tough in e.g. Saudi Arabia but think that there is nothing to complain about here. Women have equal rights, they will tell you. It's the law that they aren't discriminated against. Women have equal pay for the same jobs, it's the law.
When you point out that in practice that doesn't actually happen, they'll then tell you that's because women choose to go part time or not apply for promotions/pay rises etc. The law gives them equal rights, so if they are not equally represented, it's their fault.

Thank you, Robe.

Oh, I am the world's best ranter which just makes them roll their eyes.

Caretaker, in what way am I to do 'hard on him'? Beat him with a stick??
I am not letting them get away with this shit, I am challenging them every single time (when they say something stupid in my presence), I pull their friends up about this stuff (to their utter mortification).

Anyway, I am quite happy with my parenting, I was looking for ammunition and evidence a bit harder than MRA blogs and the likes

noblegiraffe, that's exactly it.
Because it's less bad, it's not an issue or summat

Rhonda, we are a similar vintage - I hear ya'

My daughter is 12 and the misogyny spouted by her male classmates is fucking worrying. The fact that it's worse than I suffered in the eighties is cause for concern.

Parents have got to challenge this, well done for having a go Pacific and challenging his ideas.

It's almost that our kids are parented by their parents, and the internet.

Also I don't understand some reactions here (well i do, it's the internet), teenagers are meant to try out extremes. And as a pp in the safety of their family unit they can try them on for size.
Why if ds is looking to speak out against sexism but wants the articulate argument? Maybe not as thought out at that.
Lots of people are radically into things as young people. It's forms who they are as adults but for goodness sake you can take a few wrong turns (she's says looking at the communist manifesto on the bookcase)

There's a difference between extremes and extremism.

Extremism is things like ISIS and MRAs.

Yes, I think misogyny IS worse than it was when I grew up.

It's actually quite terrifying how the trend is going.

And I also think that gender stereotypes are more enforced than they used to be when (and where) I grew up.

It is my experience that peer pressure forms my kids' opinions more than what they hear at home (DS1's favourite colour was pink when he was little. It lasted about 2 weeks into him starting nursery where he was told that 'pink was for girls' ). Children want to fit in on the one hand, and on the other as teenagers they start to separate from their parents' opinions and values and rebel - that is all normal and healthy.

My concern is to get my sons through puberty/early adulthood healthy and hale (much male violence is directed against males) and keep them thinking rather than swallowing all these convenient 'facts' fed to them from all and sundry wholesale.

Misogyny, like racism, is something that needs correcting.

Misogyny is not like Racism, Sexism is like Racism.

Unfortunately the posts above (and many many other on MN) fuel this view in young men (and women) yet it is rarely challenged.

It's pretty normal to hear that pink is for girls. You can see it in clothing, card shops etc. It's not something most people get worked up about.

Not at all the same kind of thing as this internet stuff.

No, Misogyny, racism they are from the same stable.

I imagine that you feel sexism is when a woman says something a bit mean about a man instead of seeing it as a something that men do to women.

Misogyny is equivalent to racial supremacism.

Sexism is equivalent to racism.

IMO Manclife is technically right, but most sexism IS misogynism.

All -isms are from the same stable, and they all terrify me tbh.

It's pretty normal to hear that pink is for girls. You can see it in clothing, card shops etc. It's not something most people get worked up about.

It's ridiculous. No colour is "for" any sex. It may not be on the same scale as the misogyny which is inherent in society but it's still lamentable.

Then you've not been reading some of the comments I've seen here:

1. One person saying a man must have raped a women despite the woman being convicted of making the whole thing up.

2. Males only get raped in prison and then it's only because there are no women

That's just in the past 2 days. Just see how quickly the word Misogyny is levelled in comments unrelated to male/female issues. Now look at it from a young persons point of view. Those comments were made on a popular website under the topic 'feminism' and were not only not challenged but the 'rad fems' (their word not mine) agreed and made even more inflammatory comments.

There's a HUGE community of intelligent people here who could make a big difference to people's attitudes. It just seems to being wasted.

I need to type faster.

Hmm...sounds a bit like "not all Asians are terrorist but all terrorist are Asian"

Another ancient (59) mother in a male household here. Mine are older now, 19 and 21 but we've had all these conversations. You don't stop engaging with your son's when they are 14 because that is a very impressionable age and they do like to shock . Persevere because it will pay off in the end.
much male violence is directed against males This is very true. I remember a trying to explain this to DS2 when we were walking through a dodgy part of town. As a middle aged woman I was much safer than a young man alone would be.