It's another FB 'discussion' on TRAs...

[Albadross]

Help me craft a response to this that summarises the issues without causing all out war with my friend?

"Trans exclusionary radical feminists.... That is a kind of radical feminism characterized by transphobia, especially transmisogyny, and hostility to the third wave of feminism. They believe that the only real women™ are those born with a vagina and XX chromosomes. They wish to completely enforce the classic gender binary, supporting gender essentialism.... so basically... yikes, these are people harrassing trans people and try to prevent gender neutral bathrooms and that stuff.. This is really sick and I still have no idea how people can subvert the word feminism in this way but it happens. More reasons why people don't like calling themselves feminists... morons like this."

I tell them that reason that those with vaginas and XX chromosomes are the only real women is because it is a fact. That the only women who don't conform to this fact are intersex, which has fuck all to with transgender. Suggest they learn the difference between biological sex and gender.

Something does not become a fact just because a trendy tranche of people (third wave feminists or any other group) says it is a fact.

Oh, and as for subverting the word feminism. She should know what subverting words is as people like her and her mates are doing it all the time to the word "woman".

Surprised someone so right on uses the word moron.

She doesn't know what gender essentialism means if she thinks the gender critical feminists are the ones promoting it.

'Moron' is disablist.
Women are not trying to prevent gender neutral bathrooms. We say they should exist as well as womens bathrooms.

You're all right, but is there some way of saying it in a way that might get my point across without causing a pile on?

They wish to completely enforce the classic gender binary

I don't know any feminist, "terf" or otherwise that want to do this, sex binary, yes because that is biological fact (obvious exception for intersex) but not gender binary because there is no such thing.

I doubt there is any way of putting in so you don't get a pile of shit heaped on you OP. One must never use logic or facts in debating with these snowflakes don'tcha know?

Yeah, I know - I'm going to have to just try and ignore it aren't I?

Perhaps I am wrong but I don't understand critiquing 'terfs' on the basis of gender essentialism. This might be an effective critique if the dominant narrative among people who identify as trans were rooted in the belief of the fluidity of gender, the wish to go against the restrictions of society's views on what is proper for one or the other gender to do, or a sort if Butler-esque view that gender is just a social construct. It is my understanding, however, that many people who choose to transition do so because they believe that they - despite their anatomy or chromosomes- are really a man or really are a woman ( in their Brian or soul perhaps?) Is not that also an essentialist statement?
Just to add: i support everyone's right to live as the person they want to be, as long as this does not impinge ( in a real way) on other people's freedoms.

Just tell her you don't think she understands what so called terfs are saying, they are often misrepresented and there is a lot of misogyny involved in the things that are said about them.
Then don't bother going any further unless she responds in a way that sounds like she might be interested in listening.

It was about some alleged attacks perpetrated by Terfs on Trans people in Halifax -

www.thecoast.ca/halifax/trans-exclusionists-target-halifax-trans-women/Content?oid=6609251

My son who has autism was called a fucking moron once. The school was not impressed (and it wasn't a case of boys will be boys either).

Moron is disgusting word.

That post is so full of nonsense it doesn't bear a response. And I would question whether she would be my friend or not. There is no such thing as trans misogyny. It simply doesn't happen.

What point do you want to make?

Whatever you say will cause a pile on. I'd simply ignore and no longer be friends.

It really is that simple. Do not give them the audience they so crave.

Reply with a pic of Muscato and ask if she really believes what she is

You could act bemused and point out that from your understanding radical feminists don't support the idea of gender at all - instead believing that anyone should be free to wear whatever they want, and have whatever hobbies and interests appeal to them irrespective of their sex - don't even get involved in the transwomen are women stuff - it's a hiding to nothing, but Rad Fem's position on gender stereotypes are very clear to see to anyone who looks, and what is written there is clearly wrong.

Probably not worth the effort, to be honest.

But you could try asking how, given that most radical feminists agree that gender is a social construct externally imposed on women and used by the patriarchy as a tool of oppression, and is thus a "very bad thing" (copyright 1066 and all that), how it makes any sense to accuse them of "upholding the gender binary?" Radical feminists want to overthrow gender, not uphold it.

Cross post with Spaghetti! Great minds 'n all that...

That thing in Halifax was an utter disgrace. She obviously has only had one side of the story. A woman got raped, the judge said something stupid and let the guy off I think, and feminists and sexual assault survivors arranged a protest. Trans activists made it all about them as per usual with that article. It kicked off big time on the event fb page because they said they felt "unsafe" if there were female signs and pussy hats etc as that was transphobic. I saw some of the posts that are still up a while back (not sure how I got there though, just clicked through links) and they were awful. Women, including sexual assault survivors, were threatened with real violence, and one of the organisers said (a man) that he understood the trans anger.

I would find it hard to continue to be friends with someone who wrote something so ill informed and stupid. I think I'd at least have to unfollow so I didn't see their posts.

Does she know you have gender critical leanings?

I have unfollowed my bil on fb because as soon as I challenged his views about a transgender news item, I was accused by his one of his followers of being misguided and misinformed and making typical cisgender comments. I know that's pretty mild compared to what could have been but my point is op, you can't really avoid a pile on and if your friend is already brain washed with these ideas, then nothing you say now is going to undo what the "know".

Just post a link to Terf is a slur and explain to her that the arguments between radical feminists (or TERFS as they are called by transactivists) and transactivists are a bit more complicated than transactivists would paint them. Then link her to Miranda Yardley's site and This Never Happens.

If that doesn't bring her over to the dark side, you'll just have to accept that she's got some kind of psychological investment in drinking in the kool-aid.

Also, post Janice Turner's 2 brilliant articles about this.