Can we talk about this lip filler fashion

[squirreltrap]

I'm just wondering if there is some feminist analysis for the current fashion for lip fillers. I don't want to slate the women who are doing it, just understand what the hell its all about!

My thoughts on it are:

• it must be porn related?
• are they designed to look like labia on your face?
• it seems to be some obvious expression of sexual availability?
• I've never spoken to a man who finds it attractive so that's confusing
• it seems to make women look 'vulnerable' and low in self-esteem somehow, is that what is attractive? (Reminds me of the old feminist arguement about high heels being attractive because they render women unable to defend themselves I.e. Run away)

What's everyone else's view on this?

(And it is a feminist issue because it's women doing it to themselves)

And how frequently does one, male or female, see a baboon's arse? I think I may have reached the age of 58 without ever seeing one.

So unless you are suggesting the correlation is down to some sort of atavistic, evolutionary biology thing that seems to make it even more nonsensensical.

It's really tiresome to be scolded for criticizing other women's choices when the bloody first line of the OP is I'm just wondering if there is some feminist analysis for the current fashion for lip fillers. I don't want to slate the women who are doing it, just understand what the hell its all about

I really don't understand why it's hard to grasp the difference between "Why do we, as women do this thing? And is it good or bad for women generally?" and "this is a bad thing to do, and women who do it are bad people".

Aren't you interested in what shapes people's behaviour? Don't you wonder what makes us do potentially harmful things in the pursuit of "beauty"?

I dye my hair because I am going grey and I don't like it. I can still join in a debate about whether that's a feminist choice, what it says about how society sees older women etc without seeing my arse that I'm being criticized or called a bad feminist.

But then I'm happy to be one of these dreadful overthinkers

Don't you tend to get redder, more swollen lips and a slight blush after a particularly good session too? Surely that is part of the attraction?

I dye my hair because I am going grey and I don't like it. I can still join in a debate about whether that's a feminist choice, what it says about how society sees older women etc without seeing my arse that I'm being criticized or called a bad feminist

I dye my hair because it started going grey in my early 30s and it made me look much older than I was. Most people once they have got past the stage they can get into a pub without ID don't like being taken for older than they are. Men do get prematurely grey but it seems to affect men far less than women. I don't care to analyse it beyond that. I don't care whether it is a feminist choice. I'm sure that makes me an empty headed handmaiden or an equally empty headed liberal feminist.

I do however care that ridiculous theories about red lipstick looking like sexually engorged female baboons' bottoms, which were peddled by the likes of Freud or Desmond Morris , being given credence as to why women wear lipstick.

Yep, had a look at my labia (no I haven't really), and noticed they look nothing like my mouth. I don't think they sell that colour down at Boots. Next time I'm post orgasmic I'll take a look to see if they've gone as red as a postbox.
They, it? Plural or singular?

I'm not sure why the concept of lips being reminiscent of genitalia is so bothering.

It sounds, to me, like it could easily be true. I'm not sure how easy it is to prove, either way.

But it doesn't bother me, even if it is true.

It is so bothering because it appears on every thread where lipstick is mentioned and it never gets questioned. It doesn't sound to me that it could easily be true. It sounds rather like another way of criticising women for caring about their appearance.

I have often seen on here evobiology / evopsychology theories which support misogynistic male views being dismissed as nonsense yet this one gets a free pass.

As regards 'caring about their appearance', the question is why larger, redder lips seem to be overwhelmingly preferred. The link to other primates and sexual swellings is relevant,it is not evo psych nonsense. If true, no weirder than the fact that us and baboons share the eyebrow flash (I resist the temptation to claim teenage penchant for blue eye-shadow related to spectacular baboon blue!).........

Because larger redder lips will generally indicate good health? Sorry but referring to baboons' arses sounds like complete evo psych nonsense , except it's a theory which conveniently hands a stick to those who wish to criticise other women as man pleasers.

I'm sure that makes me an empty headed handmaiden or an equally empty headed liberal feminist.

Why do that, Lass? Why twist what I said like that? I didn't say what the outcome of the conversation ought to be, or that everyone ought to be interested in having it. All I said was that it was possible to have the conversation about what dyeing hair means without getting arsey. Which includes second guessing what you think people might say in the course of it.

And FWIW, I'm not that sold on the baboon's arse theory either.

I always assumed that lipstick was to make us think about orgasmic flushing.

I'm not dying on the hill of baboon's arses

Why do that, Lass? Why twist what I said like that? I didn't say what the outcome of the conversation ought to be, or that everyone ought to be interested in having it

No but you felt the need to add you were happy to be one of the overthinkers. I'm one of the underthinkers.

I know quite a few women who have this done.

They are often in the cosmetics industry and say they do it to make their lipstick look better. Admittedly some look nice but some have gone OTT and it looks a little strange.

I think full lips are the new eyebrows?

Anyone else here have lips that don't look like a baboons arse? No? Just me?

What a load of rubbish!

I'm one of the underthinkers

I don't think that's true at all. You do seem hell bent on wringing every possible negative connotation out of my posts, but I'm not sure that I'd describe that as underthinking.

The overthinking/ underthinking is a useful little put down on here.

Not referring to this thread in particular but it is always pulled out as the trump card no matter how outrageous or convoluted the argument is " well at least I'm not underthinking" .

You do seem hell bent on wringing every possible negative connotation out of my posts

I replied to one of your posts. You commented on my reply and I responded. How is that any more "hell bent on etc etc " than what you are doing?

I think it's the other way round, Lass - "over thinking" is the classic putdown for feminism. It's pulled out as the trump card for why feminism has eaten itself. A poster will post about something like some outrageously sexist advertisement showing Mum getting her whites sparkling white, and someone will roll into the thread and go "Jesus, who cares? no wonder no one wants to be called a feminist, you're completely over thinking this. What about women in Saudi, eh?".

"Over thinking" is used in that way but it is also used as a card to stop any consideration of whether there is over thinking.

It is impossible to respond to "at least I'm not underthinking" because in not getting the point you must be " underthinking" and it then is treated as a validation of the accuser's position.

been going on for decades

Quencher
Really interesting links re red lipstick on black women. I didn't know this either.

Now can someone explain the reasoning behind the fashion for having two huge black hairy things stencilled above one's eyes?

I think there's a question not just of making yourself attractive or young or whatever, but also fitting in either your group. So fashions that look stupid to a group and be an identifier to the in group. Big, enhanced lips might be such. In my age group and income level, most women have dyed hair and botox. I do, too. Its part of a social signifier - it tells my friends, colleagues and people in the places where I go that I'm in this stream. Lots of people don't care for that look, but sometimes it's not about an objective judgement about good or not good.

Weight, lips, eyebrows, smoking, nail art, tattoos, there are so many choices that can have meanings to the people who choose them.

Fuller lips are generally considered more attractive. I think it's as simple as that. People generally always want to appear more attractive. Things like lip fillers become more easily and widely available, they become more common and it snowballs and becomes a fashion.

Yes, and fuller lips are a sign of youth and fertility. It's not because they look like labia. That is such bollocks.
Think I might have to stop waxing my tache though.

I've just watched Sixteen Candles yesterday. I'm pretty sure plenty of people would have mimicked Molly Ringwald's lips in the 80s if it was as accessible as it is now.

Also, that film is VERY problematic. It was my first time watching it and I was agog.