Can we talk about this lip filler fashion

[squirreltrap]

I'm just wondering if there is some feminist analysis for the current fashion for lip fillers. I don't want to slate the women who are doing it, just understand what the hell its all about!

My thoughts on it are:

• it must be porn related?
• are they designed to look like labia on your face?
• it seems to be some obvious expression of sexual availability?
• I've never spoken to a man who finds it attractive so that's confusing
• it seems to make women look 'vulnerable' and low in self-esteem somehow, is that what is attractive? (Reminds me of the old feminist arguement about high heels being attractive because they render women unable to defend themselves I.e. Run away)

What's everyone else's view on this?

(And it is a feminist issue because it's women doing it to themselves)

Should say "lips wearing makeup on face"

I would say it's associated with youth and living in a society that prizes youth above all in women...

Lipstick is designed to mimic the labia. And although, I can't quite see it myself, I do know that from an anthropological point of view it's been studied.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/partyinmyscience.wordpress.com/2013/04/01/red-lipstick-the-genital-echo-o-o-o/amp/

According to Desmond Morris, a British zoologist, it’s all in the lips: a woman’s facial lips have become a ‘genital echo’ which “resemble the female labia in their texture, thickness, and colour”

wuckfit

I'm not disputing that you find it a choice that suits you. I'm just pointing out where it comes from.

The fact that you don't relate to that is entirely understandable.

I have known for literally decades what lipstick is meant to represent. The fact that when I look at red lips on a woman (or myself), I don't think ooh labia, has nothing to do with it.

The fashion is literally thousands of years old. Enhancing redness on the lips, as a sign of sexual availability.

Like the genitals of other primates getting red and engorged during fertility. (Not a fashion I would like to see being promoted).

And may I point out that here in the feminism section, no one is interested in whether something is your choosey choice?

We do analysis of society in general here.

Blimey, I've stumbled down a rabbit hole here. I do not frequent the feminism boards but surely feminism is about the freedom to be treated equally and make whatever choices we wish to make.

It looks completely shite and hopefully, asa fashion, it will die off quickly.

Datun so are women aware of this, maybe subconsciously, any study results on that? My gf almost never uses lipstick, but her mother and her little sister do...

It's not a new thing - I first had mine done about 10 years ago. It's just one of those things that has become quite accessible like Botox and quick to carry out.

And apparently an increasing number of men are having it too...

MrGHardy

No, I don't think many women are aware of it. It's been common knowledge to me for years. But then everyone has to learn about it for the first time, I guess.

I don't think it's necessarily
some kind of subconscious decision on the part of the woman. It's just fashion.

Newtssuitcase

Yes, being treated equally and making choices that we like is definitely a part of feminism. Being able to make choices has been denied women for centuries.

But sometimes people make choices within a system. Analysing the reasons for that system, and therefore why those choices are made, is very definitely a feminist issue.

I don't think there is a feminist alive who would castigate you for shaving your legs or wearing lippy. But knowing why we do this things is both interesting and informs us of how choices don't always necessarily buck a system.

Women do it because they want to, some women like fuller lips some don't. I'm not understanding why what people do to their bodies effects others

Yes it's why I wince at little girls in bright lipstick. Clueless mothers.

People are judgmental about any kind of cosmetic work - threads about boob jobs have been the same.

I think it stems from reality Tv the kardashians have very plumped up lips I have seen girls on my Dds facebook barely out of Secondary school with fillers in their lips and cheeks these girls don't look like themselves it is very odd I think they wantvto look like kylie Jenner or somebody off geordie shore Its very worrying imo that cosmetic therapists are opening up in sheds at the bottom of gardens there is 4 in my village alone plus a cosmetic beauty therapist salon I don't know the answer but as i said it is worrying that young women feel they need to plump their faces .

Pointing out that cosmetic surgery is often undertaken in order to be more pleasing to the male gaze for longer is being judgemental? Because that's what's happening here.

Dippingmytoesin

Chinese foot binding was considered de rigueur for young girls and women. It made them walk in a very delicate way. Which was attractive to men. It also crippled them.

Whale bone corsets was considered very fashionable, slimming the waist and enhancing the hips. Also attractive to men. It also broke ribs and caused breathing difficulties.

Cutting off bits of a woman's genitals is considered correct by many mothers of these girls. It destroys their sexual function but more importantly, they cannot be coveted by a man they don't belong to.

I'm sure tens of thousands of these women were of the opinion that this was a choice they agreed with and wanted to do.

So yes, what women do
to their bodies is very much a feminist issue. Because these choices are not made in a vacuum.

A woman can increase her breast size a hundred percent, have lip fillers, and hair extensions, but make no mistake, she is not making a feminist choice.

That doesn't mean she can't do it. It does mean she can't claim it's feminist.

•I would say it's associated with youth and living in a society that prizes youth above all in women...*
Well youth and beauty above all.
It would be interesting to see a study done as to whether enhancements to beauty pay off for everyone, male and female- or are they still unhappy after work done or does being beautiful ( though I prefer a natural looking beauty to a painted one, even if achieved by artificial means) really improve your life.

Datun I think judging women by what they choose to do with their bodies when you're a woman yourself doesn't make you a feminist either.

If someone feels uncomfortable with their body they can do what they wish regardless.

I don't really think it's up to anyone to decide whether someone is a feminist or not.

Not everyone does stuff for men!

What concerns me is women having these fillers done by unqualified and unscrupulous practitioners. I saw a young woman recently who had the most misshapen lips that looks totally distorted and as if they were close to bursting point. I can't imagine she'd had this done by a doctor.

MissBabbs - probably shouldn't disclose it here, but I have botox and fillers and am happy with the results. Botox makes me look a bit fresher / less tired, and fillers mitigate against bitchy rest face and looking unhappy. I don't - at least consciously - do it for men but because I like the results. Am happy with the results - but wasn't unhappy before, if that makes any sense

PS My botox and fillers is done by a doctor (and isn't for the lips)

Dippingmytoesin

I'm not judging. I'm pointing out where these decisions start.

It's incredibly difficult when people don't have any background information. Because, as far as they're concerned, they are making a decision based purely on their preferences.

So disagreeing, and being a little defensive, is entirely understandable. I don't judge that.

@Dippingmytoesin, Datun said

"she is not making a feminist choice.

That doesn't mean she can't do it. It does mean she can't claim it's feminist."

It's the choice that is being considered not feminist, not the woman herself. Women can clearly be feminists but sometimes make non-feminist choices.

And even if they do do it for men, is that wrong, categorically? Not disputing the examples you listed are terrible, but is it generally wrong to make yourself more appealing (to the other sex)?