UK gym to admit self ID'ing men into womens changing rooms

[Whatnextxx]

Here is the thing, went to renew my membership at the gym today but before I signed up asked about the policy of allowing self ID'ing men (i.e. men who decide to become "women" without surgery etc) access to womens changing rooms. The membership assistant didn't know and went to find out, she was gone quite a long time and came back ashen faced to tell me that if a man "presents" as a woman he would be allowed to use the womens changing room. I pointed to a little girl of about 5 or 6 and asked how she would explain a naked male in the changing room to her and did the same with an older women who looked to be around 70. She said she is shocked at the policy and wondered where the protection is for women and girls, she didn't have a clue about Justine Greenings proposals.

The thing is that the womens changing room has only 4 cubicles and they are at the far ends of the main open space so even if I or any woman was to use the cubicles we might emerge into an open space where naked men might be.

The assistant said she had spoken with the manager and asked what would happen if a sex offender pretended to be a woman. She told me that she didn't agree with the policy but that there was nothing she could do as the policy came from central office. What an awful position to put employees in.

She understood exactly why I didn't renew my membership.

I contacted the owner of the gym and to try to highlight the issue did it on Twitter. I was subjected to a barrage of horrible comments, one even accused me of being a jihadist!

So fed up with this, there seems to be nowhere for women to go without worrying that some male bodied person is going to come into spaces where women are changing.

Am I being unduly sensitive or am I realistically concerned about having my privacy and dignity taken away by men who think or want to behave "like a woman"?

Also do MN users think that the gym has a moral obligation to inform their members of their policy regarding this? I imagine they might lose quite a lot of women and family members if they were honest about their intentions.

Not unduly sensitive at all. And yes a definite duty to customers. Why are people so un thinking?

OP - so is this all a hypothetical fear with you?

Have you actually ever seen a man presenting as a woman trying to enter your gym/changing room?

It's not that you sound unduly sensitive, more that I can't understand why such a highly hypothetical event bothers you.

I go to a large and busy gym. I don't know what their policy on this issue is. In my years of visiting that gym - I have not seen men presenting as women in my changing room, or on a gym floor.
If and when that happens, and if that becomes an issue - I am sure we can, them discuss it with management.

And sex offenders, dressing up as women to sneak into our changing rooms.... Really?
What, to then offend in public, with bright lights and onlookers present....
Hmmm

It's the same for the gym at my university, which is why I will not be renewing.

Whatnextxx
No you are not being insensitive. Yes they should inform the members but more than likely they wont especially if it is a big chain.The gym at my workplace were thinking about doing this and if they do i will not be going

Josuk, it is not hypothetical fear, I just do not wish to find myself in a situation where there is a possibility of encountering a male bodied person is what is described as a woman's changing room. I have come across a male presenting as a woman and found them to be highly aggressive.

I did not speak about sex offenders, it was the membership assistant who said that. I don't know why she said that but she will be aware as I am that there are certain times during the day when the gym is very quiet and a woman can be on her own in the changing room.

It's so annoying isn't it what, I'm not at all modest in gym changing rooms, I feel quite relaxed and would hate that to change. If sone one who self ID'd female was using my changing rooms I would probably stop going.

I wonder if gym chains will change their policy if enough women stop their subscriptions? I think it is terribly unfair to expect women to move aside for male bodied people. I am a modest but only in that I don't want to subject others to my wobbly bits so tend to use the cubicles anyway. I am just really sad that I feel unable to go to a place that I have been to for years and it doesn't seem right to pay money to a huge organisation that allows this to happen.

This policy worries me a lot. I have a relative who works and a large council run sport centre and it has a swimming pool. The changing rooms are communal but there are gaps under and above the door, enough room to look up or over if you wanted to. He said it is a very common occurrence to ask men to leave or have to call the police because of dodgy behaviour. They also often have to call the police because they have know (and unknown) sex offenders who should not be in there hanging about the pool and swimming under water near children. This can be difficult to deal with because they don't touch any kids, just watch them.

To get to my main point, this sport centre has training for gymnastics and a local secondary use it during the day. The girls use the open plan women's changing room. I asked my relative what would happen if a man went in there and watched the girls getting changed, but said he identified as a women. No answer, just a look of panic because I don't think this problem had crossed their minds.

Yes have been wondering about this myself. Ours quite recently put a sign up in the ladies advising that boys older than 8 yrs should use the men's. Presumably there have been complaints. There are many swimming lessons where the mothers as mostly the carers.

There are also a LOT of older ladies who will not relish seeing 'Cock avant Pilates'. I think there would be a riot. With tea

TBH I don't want to ask.

I don't see how any business can justify potentially losing half it's customers for the sake of a few. And yes we should vote with our feet, the business sectors affected will have more influence on government than us plebs but will only stand up for us if it affects their profits. Sad but true.

Hiding, I agree and I can't help but wonder if the number of trans people this would help is minute compared to the number of dodgy men who will abuse it.

Very probably misskelly, can I ask what might be a really naive and insensitive question of the people on this thread? Given that we are talking about a relatively tiny proportion of the population who currently have a genuine issue with sex segregated facilities would use of existing disabled facilities not be a viable solution? Would that just cause issues for disabled people instead?

I'll admit I don't tend to notice what disabled facilities are generally available but those I have noticed seem to be private and separate from both male and female facilities so (to my quite possibly ignorant eyes) would seem the logical solution. I'm cringing as I type this in case there's an obvious problem I'm not aware of (lack of those facilities in the first place so entirely unfair to add additional demand?) but I'm more than happy to be put right if that's the case, just wondered what others think?

As afar as I know, there are family facilities which also cater for disabled access to the swimming pool in my gym. No idea how private or not.

Regardless, the aggressive TRAs want validation by being allowed into the female space; that's what it's all about. So no, not likely to make them happy.

They will only be happy when all the women are changing in the toilets.

I think they'll only be happy when all the women are confined to their own homes. Back to "good old days" when our only sphere was the domestic one. Silenced and unseen.

Seeingadistance I've seen a lot of men openly saying that on social media.

I'm starting to think we need a radical feminist womens organisation, with paid membership.

Hiding I am a wheelchair user my local swimming pool has only one disabled cubicle. I am obviously happy to wait if another disabled customer is using it, but why should I wait while a non disabled man uses it?

I've been embarrassingly uninterested in any form of activism up til now but I would join DJ. The prospect of self ID going through worries me massively, the implications are huge and too many people don't seem to be able to see it. I really want to do something before it's too late because there will be no going back if this bill goes through.

That's exactly the sort of issue I wanted to know about Seven thank you, I'll put my hands up that I have no idea what issues it might create, that's why I asked. I'm starting to realise this is about much more than facilities anyway, these threads are eye opening for me

DJ Some of those men might change their minds and start whining when their wives/girlfriends start putting on weight or looking less "toned"

Im guessing THEN people will listen. Sad and outrageous but true.

Brieandpateplease - why would I go to the trouble to "make this scenario up"? That is exactly the response I got from MRA's on Twitter, alongwith being called a whole host of unpleasant names. If you chose to believe I am lying that is your issue not mine. With regard to renewal of membership, there are several levels of membership and I have in the past reviewed these before renewing. I personally prefer to discuss long term financial commitments before signing on the dotted line.

I wouldn't be happy with a man in the women's changing room either.
What gym company is it?

I love my large sports club. The changing rooms are large, mostly communal with only 2 cubicles. The women are all generally relaxed and open with nudity. I can't imagine an obviously male TW in there - i doubt it would go down well. Would be interesting to see what would actually happen though.

As for the OP's dilema - i'd be renewing my membership and would deal with the issue if it happens. I might discuss it and ask the gyms policy but it wouldn't put me off - yet.

It is a minefield for gyms. Whatever they do will be questioned.

What policy would most people want for transsexuals?

Still think it is cutting off your nose to spite your face to cut your membership based on a purely hypothetical situation. I am sure no set of rules would not allow hypothetical situations (however far fetched) unacceptable to many members.