What's wrong with being a SAHM?

[Roseandlily]

I am not a feminist (I don't think). I currently earn more than my partner but when our baby is born I will be a stay at home mother. I love the idea of striving to be the best mother, home maker, having the tea on the table for when he gets home stuff. I love the idea of it all. But when I talk to people and they ask "oh what's your plan, how long to you plan to take off work?" And we both say I won't be going back and this will be me at home for say the next 10years give or take.

I would like to add that we would like to have 3 children so I will be at home until the last child starts school.

I don't care about amazing holidays we have done that :) or fancy cars, both had what we wanted and now have got sensible cheaper cars. We are married and have a lovely home.

What do feminists think is so wrong with this? And why do people make me feel weird about this?

I'm appalled that you found that joke worthy make

It's not a joke.

Finally, not everyone is capable of their own high flying career. Many people just have jobs. It makes sense for couples to play to their strengths, maximising income and minimising expenditure on child care, if there is no financial advantage (or desire) to outsourcing it.

Obviously, no one could argue with that. But us pesky feminists just like to point out that somehow it always 'makes sense' for it to be the man that goes to work and the woman to stay at home. And that many women are disadvantaged in the long term by a 'choice' where they bore most of the financial risk. That is feminist structural analysis, not taking a pop at individual women

Surely if more men stayed at home they too would be disadvantaged by their choice, bearing most of the financial risk.
If women don't want to stay at home they don't have to.
Whether man or woman you should choose a spouse that encourages you to choose what you want or find a man who is willing to sah if this is what you want.

Alright, 'smart arsed comment' worthy then

Guaranteed a comment which begins 'no offence', is intended to cause offence.

gilly its chicken and the egg, innit?

If more men stayed home, if more women were part of policy making processes on a societal level, we'd probably see far more protection for parents looking after DC.

As it stands, men, as a class, don't give up work and value those that do very little indeed hence the lack of protection.

Carl

I often wonder if some couples discuss this stuff before they have dc.
None of our kids were planned, we weren't having any
However, we did discuss what we would do with the system that existed then if we did have any little surprises.
I wasn't bothered about a career as I'd had quite a successful career before dc and it wasn't compatible with family life for us both to continue in the same industry.
I could have changed career/job, gone pt but it wasn't for us, so I was a sahm.
My dh career continued the same and grew over the years as a result.
he was lucky to be able to be round for the dc though and did/does his share if not more round the house.
I suppose if your dh works in a corporate office environment with specific hours you'd have to discuss his hours and how to make it fair for both.

I don't think the correct discussions are possible though, even if discussions are had

What parents think they want/it will be like before they have kids is often different to how it is after the kids have arrived

Also, people always think that if they do get divorced, then theirs would be an amicable separation where both parties are reasonable and considerate. Couples don't often consider how they will separate after the husband has spent years leaving the wife to do all the household chores and child rearing, whilst he excels in his career. He has had an affair and they hate each other's guts

Tagging on & returning to the OP :

I love the idea of striving to be the best mother, home maker, having the tea on the table for when he gets home stuff. I love the idea of it all

It's sweet that you're so in love with the "idea" of it all. Wait till you get to the reality.

Not for nothing did most women writers writing before the 2nd wave of feminism after WW2, write about being free to work, earn their own money, and not be imprisoned in the home. Try Virginia Woolf (500 pounds a year & a room of one's own) or Charlotte Perkins Gilmore (The Yellow WAllpaper) or Kate Chopin (The Awakening) Charlotte Bronte - any of her novels, but Villette especially . And so on.

Don't underestimate your current freedom, autonomy and independence. YOu don't know what you've got till it's gone. Joni Mitchell knew what she was talking about.

"I'd had quite a successful career before dc and it wasn't compatible with family life for us both to continue in the same industry..... so I was a sahm.

My dh career continued the same and grew over the years as a result."

This is what happens. So rarely the men who make the decision to stop paid work or go PT, so rarely the women whose careers progress.

Loopy

I could have done something else, I just chose not to.
I know some women martyr themselves, do something they don't want to do.
I really don't know why, of course unless they have no choice.

'Of course, not everyone wants a 'high flying career' (I am not even sure what that is) saint; that is a straw man argument. But everyone should be aiming to be able to support themselves, no?'

It's not a straw man argument. It's rainbows argument; I was responding to it.

And no, I don't think people should be aiming to support themselves particularly when much essential work is unpaid or low paid.

'But us pesky feminists just like to point out that somehow it always 'makes sense' for it to be the man that goes to work and the woman to stay at home. And that many women are disadvantaged in the long term by a 'choice' where they bore most of the financial risk. That is feminist structural analysis, not taking a pop at individual women '

It's a very limited feminist analysis. Us pesky feminists would like to point out that not all advantages and disadvantages are measured in economic terms, and that there are many advantages to being a SAHM.

If it's so great, why don't more men do it?

These choices are not made in a vacuum.

Nobody is saying the choices are made in a vacuum.

Men don't do it because they're socialised to believe it is unacceptable to do so.

I wonder how many SAHMs stayed at home because of pregnancy / birth complications, being passed over for promotion because illness+young children = no promotion, and could see that after three or four years of that (the amount of time it takes a lot of two child families to have their kids) their DH would have advanced beyond them anyway, whether they chose to work or not.

Part of the reason I stayed at home was the fact discrimination against me started pretty much when I became pregnant. Could I prove it? Could I fuck. Also I had HG I could barely think straight let alone instruct lawyers.

So I guess I played right into the hands of those discriminating against me but who wants to play poker with one card? It's lies to pretend I would have been any more secure if I'd stayed at work. The minute I decided to have children I became vulnerable, in work and out.

Yes, many families can't afford to even cover childcare for both to go to work, and many mothers who do work are incredibly precarious positions, making them vulnerable to discrimination.

I was talking to the father of one of my DS's friends today about how expensive it is to pay for nursery for two children under 5, why it will make more sense financially for us to have a nanny once I go back to work, etc.

He said something to the effect of: yes, because you might as well just stay at home with them. Emphasis very much on the 'you' as the mother.

I don't earn a fortune, but it does make financial sense for me to go back to work and pay for a full-time nanny. In the long term, it definitely makes sense. Not that this matters at a personal level, and I might well choose to go back to work if I earned less, or to be a SAHM if I earned far more. But behind the remark (of a nice man) there seemed to be the underlying assumption that my work wasn't well-paid, and so needed justifying.

In reverse, I was thinking, it would have been a super rude comment for me to make to him (they have a second child on the way; we just had one). And I doubt he would have said it to my husband!

How do you deal with these irritating prejudices about women's work, wages, value? How does one correct someone without looking like a touchy strident loon?

*I love the idea of striving to be the best mother, home maker, having the tea on the table for when he gets home stuff. I love the idea of it all

It's sweet that you're so in love with the "idea" of it all. Wait till you get to the reality.*

Oh, I don't know. I got to spend all day, every day with the people I love the most in the world. Who matter to me the most. And for whom I am the person (or one of them - no disrespect to DH here) they love most in return. The reality was pretty lovely, I thought, albeit not financially rewarding. And now they're that bit older and they have to go to school, I appreciate it more - because that time, and that opportunity, is gone forever. Did it have its ups and downs, like anything does in life? Of course - because it is real life and not a film. But still something I'm really glad I was able to do. In fact, if you pushed me, I'd go so far as to say I feel pretty grateful to my DH that he made that possible (in the sense of it being an actual and meaningful choice that I could make).

...and I'm more of a "wait till he gets home before I open the wine" than a "tea on the table when he gets home" type, in all honesty! (DH would definitely concur....)

Men don't do it because they're socialised to believe it is unacceptable to do so.

I totally agree with this and I never knew it was so widespread until I came on here.
However, not all men are. Don't you just find a man who isn't like this, or is that too obvious.
I knew the steady corporate type wasn't for me, I think they're wankers. I didn't want the one who went for promotions and judged success with a large salary, it does nothing for me and imo it's soulless.
Sorry if you are married to one and don't see them the same.
My point is I didn't even look at this type, or any other I didn't like.

Don't women know what type of man they want? Do they not see the flaws and personality traits. Do they not discuss the their values, expectations, personal plans for their future.
Do they not know what they are signing up to?

'Men don't do it because they're socialised to believe it is unacceptable to do so.

I totally agree with this and I never knew it was so widespread until I came on here.
However, not all men are. Don't you just find a man who isn't like this, or is that too obvious.'

I suppose you try and find one if you want to be a full time WOHM and support a partner at home, but maybe many WOHMs don't want this set up?

I mean, I don't see women on this thread complaining that they want their partner or ex partner to be a SAHD.

It seems to be SAHMs who want to be SAHMs or WOHMs who want their partner or ex partner to work as well.

I think hopsalong was referring to marrying a man prepared to be flexible and open minded about combining family and work rather than a corporate suit who has to put in the long hours to climb the greasy pole and won't ever be inconvenienced by sick children and school pick ups.

In truth, many couples tag team as their children grow up depending on where they are in their career/how much they like their job at that time/their geographic location of job/childrens' needs etc. These are all to be considered, but the feminist view is that it shouldn't be the default that the women takes up the parenting slack so Mr Big never has to concern himself with such pettiness as fitting around school activities.

From a personal perspective DH and I never felt we needed a parent who didn't work.

We had one year, when I didn't receive any dosh, when we lived abroad. But TBH during that year we used more child care and domestic help than we ever did before or have since. So I'd be stretching it to call myself a SAHM.

But had DH wanted to give up work I'd have been up for that. But I wouldn't have expected to suddenly quit caring for my DC or doing my share of domestic responsibilities.

I fact I know a lot of SAHDs because I work in the arts where lots of people don't make good $$$ and we tend to work at home a lot. Their approach to it is very different to the SAHMs I know.

I suppose even calling them SAHDs is a bit much. Because they are working and earning generally.

I am married to a 'corporate suit' and in all fairness, he does as much for his dc as time allows. He certainly doesn't think that because he has been at work all week that he shouldn't have to ever drive them anywhere or take them to the park or make them food or any of the other stuff that parents do to look after their children.
He certainly doesn't believe that looking after them is beneath him.

I would say that when looking for a partner, what they do for a living is less important than who they are - it comes down to whether they respect and value the work that goes into caring for a family and being a good parent, or not. And that is something which isn't linked to career choice imo. There are lazy arse men from all job and income brackets who think that raising dc is beneath them - if they are not at work they are entitled to do nothing at home and devote all their 'free' time to their hobby.

My dh does think that money and career progression are important because that gives us the money to support our kids properly. It's as simple as that.

Also, he has had to work as he does because his is the only income. I have to say that while we both were happy for me to sah, it has put pressure on him that I regret. I am a bit conflicted because I really have valued sah, I am married to a man who respects what I do and freely admits that it has helped him career wise, but at the same time it wasn't a sensible financial choice for me and has almost forced dh into a job with long hours etc in order to pay for it all.

Otoh, lots of people work just as hard and earn a lot less, so there is no guarantee that me woh would have resulted in him having a less stressful life. He might have chosen a full on career anyway. Who knows...

Could go mad thinking about this. In the end we all just do feels right at the time.