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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?

183 replies

featherland · 08/07/2017 22:40

I have noticed over the last few months / years more and more people I know on Facebook identifying themselves as queer, even though they are in heteronormative relationships.

For example, I went to a friend's wedding. It was very traditional - big white gown, all male speeches etc. she has been with her husband since she was a teenager and never (publicly) been in a relationship with a woman. She describes herself as femme and queer - and often posts photos of herself looking very beautiful and typically 'feminine' (makeup, pretty clothes ..) describing herself as such, with loads of pride emoticons.

I just .. Don't get it? I understand the desire to reject gender norms and heteronormativity. But surely those of us who are straight and in monogamous relationships can't just claim the word queer when we receive (willingly or not) all the social privileges of being straight?

And I can understand wanting to stand in solidarity with LGBTQ people. But don't we need to change heteronormative society rather than muscle in on the spaces created by and for people who are marginalised? Eg I am not married, mainly because I can't reconcile myself with the patriarchal history of marriage. I don't see that doing heteronormative tings and saying that you aren't is really queer? If there is such a thing as queer heterosexuality shouldn't it be about living in non normative ways?

OP posts:
Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 22:54

Lass ha ha I'm beginning to think you're deliberately trolling me! No, mothers don't use another word. It would be ridiculous! That's my point. The fact that I find these cultural pressures difficult doesn't stop me being a mother. I simply try to challenge the cultural crap.

And yes, there are millions of women ignoring those things. I'm one of them. Tiring, though, isn't it?

I'm talking about the social construction of gender, and the social construction of motherhood.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_construction_of_gender#Stereotypical_gender_roles

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 22:56

But I do try to challenge the cultural norms of being a hetero, middle class, white mother

I think you have a rather narrow view of what you think being a hetero, middle class, white mother is. You seem to have decided there is a fixed range of societal norms applicable to this group and you are going to rail against them. As if other hetero, middle class , white mothers don't just get on with their lives and their mothering style.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 22:57

Lass ha ha I'm beginning to think you're deliberately trolling me!

Fine go ahead and report me.

Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 22:59

Lass are you seriously saying that you don't think there are any limiting associations or effects of heteronormativity?

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QuentinSummers · 09/07/2017 23:00

feather lass is not feminist and has had an exceptional career, amazing marriage and great children. Because she can do it we all can.

NotAnotherNoughtiesTune · 09/07/2017 23:03

Queer is an odd term for it but I do post as being bisexual or a non specific sexuality.

I find all bits attractive but more personality. I just happen to be married to a man and not dated a woman.

LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 23:03

To be honest Feather I think you could just try getting on with your life.

Your troll comment is bang out of order by the way.

Original poster
featherland · 09/07/2017 23:11

I'm trying to understand where all the confusion came from ... I don't think I wrote that I'm not a mother anywhere, just that I don't like the cultural conventions. Pretty standard feminist theory, I think?

But then I was (not paying enough attention to) looking after my children at the time so perhaps I got it all a bit muddled.

I'm very interested in how literally people seem to take these identifying categories, though. As I wrote earlier I've always thought they were politically but not personally representative. I don't get the erasure thing either - I don't feel like my identity is erased even though I pass as straight. My identity would be under threat if I was attacked for my sexuality, which I'm not. But many people are. And I want to stand in solidarity with them without pretending that I share their suffering.

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LassWiTheDelicateAir · 09/07/2017 23:20

I mean - why does anyone care what my sexuality is?

Does any one care? You have spent a large part of this thread telling us what it is.

I'm very interested in how literally people seem to take these identifying categories, though

What "identifying categories"? Being a mother? I gave birth. I am a mother. I went back to work full time when my son was 2 months old. I employed a nanny and a cleaner. I have zero interest in whether or not I complied with any one's expectations of what being a mother is.

ALittleBitOfButter · 09/07/2017 23:45

I agree with Lass on that. Worrying about how your identity as a mother is perceived by others is pointless and navel-gazey. Much better to turn our attention to improving women's material wellbeing.

ALittleBitOfButter · 09/07/2017 23:47

It's something that only white/middleclass/etc people have the capital to do, therefore it isn't intersectional.

Lurkedforever1 · 10/07/2017 00:02

I agree too. However when I hear a sentence that starts 'as a mother' in rl my immediate association is more negative than otherwise due to the context I hear it in most. As a mother I should agree mrs entitled gets firsts dibs on annual leave, as a mother she should have done x, as a mother I need my hubby to change the light bulb and so on. However it does has positive associations too and the negatives don't dictate what I do or how I feel as a mother.

SylviaPoe · 10/07/2017 00:27

'I'm bi but not at all into BDSM. Why should people care more about one type of my private sexual activity than the other?'

Because being bi is not a 'sexual activity.' It is a sexual and/or romantic attraction to people of both sexes.

It is part of the wider social world that we know and appreciate the people our loved ones love. That's why we announce that we are mothers of children and why we announce that we are lovers of women.

My children, when they were young, new who was gay and who was straight, who was a parent and who was not, because they want to know, quite naturally, who loves whom. They don't ever need to know who is into BDSM. That we talk about one and not the other is not arbitrary at all.

SylviaPoe · 10/07/2017 00:37

'I suppose that I feel like the label 'straight' and also to some extent the cultural label 'mother' (which I also find really problematic) are attached to me whether I like it or not. Just like 'queer' was attached to people before it was reclaimed. I don't like lots of the associations of those labels but I recognise they also bring me privileges, and I feel likens have to reconcile myself to them somehow by challenging or expanding the terms.'

This is what started all the comments. You're not straight, you're are a mother. Unless there are very severe issues going on, mothers do want it to be acknowledged that they are mothers.

MaryTheCanary · 10/07/2017 03:17

What's a skoliosexual? Sounds like something to do with spines....?

Bunlicker · 10/07/2017 06:11

dn4geek that particular poster referred to her 'aromantic' as being a part of the asexual spectrum. So as far as I could tell, it meant to no love and no sex... which means jack shit really.

Wheelycote · 10/07/2017 06:22

I feel old and confused by all thisConfused why does anyone have to be labelled as anything accept with their name.

My teen son talks about the arguments at school that go on about gender....

I never new Queer was anything other than an old word for gay men

I feel old and out of touch lol

Datun · 10/07/2017 06:49

featherland

Perhaps it would help if you were more specific about the aspects of being labelled a mother that you find problematic?

There are no doubt some aspects that many people are uncomfortable with.

Like the expectation that you will be the one who gives up work and raises the children, for instance.

OvariesBeforeBrovaries · 10/07/2017 08:36

What official forms require you to state your sexual preferences?

Most recent one was signing up for some work training. Also job applications etc. It's on the equality monitoring bits of most forms.

Datun · 10/07/2017 08:40

OvariesBeforeBrovaries

On the equality section? How does that work? Is it to include more people from the LGBT community?

Datun · 10/07/2017 09:19

I've just realised that bisexuality is being attacked - from the trans and non-binary community.

I'd seen so much about lesbians being erased, that bisexuals passed me by.

'Bi' indicating the binary is offensive. Naturally. What isn't offensive would be an easier list to compile.

You can't be a lesbian, you can't be bisexual, you can't be heterosexual, in fact, and of course, there is no such thing as woman.

Idiots.

Original poster
featherland · 10/07/2017 09:20

Ffs. I was making the point that I don't understand why people call themselves queer when they conform to all social mainstream norms, but presumably don't totally identify with all of them. I made the comaprison that it would be like me saying I am not a mother when I clearly am, just because some of the cultural associations of 'motherhood' are difficult to identify with. I have not said that I'm not a mother or that I don't consider myself a mother. Simply that the patriarchal connotations of 'mother' are difficult to live with.

My entire point is that I don't understand why you wouldn't just use the word (eg mother) and challenge it's connotations, rather than claim another one.

Why is everyone telling me that I don't think I'm a mother?

OP posts:
Original poster
featherland · 10/07/2017 09:25

I am most surprised on this thread by the idea that anyone feels represented in language. I always assumed all language was a partial and inaccurate construct, that we have to keep refining in collaboration with others. Perhaps this is why I am so lost with contemporary identity politics.

Anyway I'm going now as I seem to have become the person everyone is determined to pick a fight with. I only came here to bat around some ideas, not to be attacked. I thought it might be a space to discuss things but clearly it is a space to pick a fight with other feminists. Enjoy yourselves.

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Bunlicker · 10/07/2017 09:29

Your post wasn't clear as several of us picked up on it. You did explain but obviously not everyone has time to rtft so that will get missed. I don't think any offence was meant.