Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?

[featherland]

I have noticed over the last few months / years more and more people I know on Facebook identifying themselves as queer, even though they are in heteronormative relationships.

For example, I went to a friend's wedding. It was very traditional - big white gown, all male speeches etc. she has been with her husband since she was a teenager and never (publicly) been in a relationship with a woman. She describes herself as femme and queer - and often posts photos of herself looking very beautiful and typically 'feminine' (makeup, pretty clothes ..) describing herself as such, with loads of pride emoticons.

I just .. Don't get it? I understand the desire to reject gender norms and heteronormativity. But surely those of us who are straight and in monogamous relationships can't just claim the word queer when we receive (willingly or not) all the social privileges of being straight?

And I can understand wanting to stand in solidarity with LGBTQ people. But don't we need to change heteronormative society rather than muscle in on the spaces created by and for people who are marginalised? Eg I am not married, mainly because I can't reconcile myself with the patriarchal history of marriage. I don't see that doing heteronormative tings and saying that you aren't is really queer? If there is such a thing as queer heterosexuality shouldn't it be about living in non normative ways?

I think it means because you are really gay, you get to that label and 'validation' and I want some of that too because I'm jealous.

That's very strange datun. How do lesbian and gay people oppress "queer" people??!!
It's kind of like "cis"women oppress trans women. Such bollocks

as in, i assumed we were all on a spectrum, and that if we lived in a free society then we could all have relationships with people regardless of gender, rather than having to identify iur sexual preferences as some kind of personality feature ...

Sex. People are attracted to the female or the male sex, not gender.

And no, some women are just not attracted to the male sex at all, and that's okay.

There are probably a lot of bisexual women (or really, even lesbians) who are in the closet and married to a man, because it is just easier, but I really don't think that openly homosexual people are secretly attracted to the other sex.
That just doesn't make sense. If they were, they'd be open about it. Being bisexual as a woman is a lot more accepted by the general public than being a lesbian. Men think it's sexy if a woman kisses another women, but women rejecting men? Men don't like that at all.

To be clear - I don't think everyone is bi. But I was agreeing with datun that it is very innate. So I used to assume that other people were like me - just like she had posted that it was hard for straight people to imagine being bi.

Ah, ok.

I'm a mother but I don't identify with any of the socially acceptable permutations of the role of 'mother' as defined & reinforced in our culture at large

Are we now claiming that motherhood is now a spectrum as well? What about the role of mother as defined by society do you have a problem with?

Also - blimey - that queer spaces post is insane!!

will I really hate the way I'm advertised to 'as a mother'. I hate the phrase 'as a mother.' I hate the cultural assumption that I care more about my children than anyone else's, or that I'm a more productive member of society than I was before I had children.

I'm sorry for expressing myself so clumsily today.

Are we now claiming that motherhood is now a spectrum as well?

That would just be silly.

While "mother" has always had a part of its definition that was not biology (adoptive mothers are mothers, too, and usually called that) I do think we should rather fight to remove the sexist societal connotations that come with it than inventing silly names for the core meaningof the word - and the core meaning of "mother" is "person who gave birth to a child" - we use the same word for animals that don't even raise their young, and we also talk of companies being mothers and having daughters, something that involves creating something new, but does not involve any cooking, cleaning or housekeeping.

But that is about marketing, and nothing at all with the actual label of being a mother. Have other people come out of your vagina? You're a mother.

(
OR also if you have legally adopted children, obviously)

This is a fascinating post, I'm so glad someone posted it because I've been confused about the seemingly straight people I know refer to themselves as queer. I also have a friend who describes herself as bi-sexual but hasn't actually 'done the do' with a woman. I have and the reality was very different to my imagined version (think I just imagined stroking Beyoncé's hair and nuzzling her thighs.) I now describe myself as straight, although maybe it was just those few woman that didn't really do it for me. If my friend hasn't experienced making love with a woman than how can she say she is into it? Is it to make herself sound interesting? If she really is bisexual then how come she's never experimented? I mean we're both in the goth scene, it wouldn't be that hard to find someone!

Yeah, will I think you and I are in agreement. As I wrote earlier, i am a mother but i don't like most of the gendered associations that come with the role of 'mother' as defined by and enforced by society; in exactly the same way as I am a woman but I don't like most of the gendered associations heaped on me culturally because of that.

But seeing as I am a woman (and a mother) I am interested in ways to challenge those associations, which are cultural and not natural. I cannot declare myself to not be a woman or not be a mother, but I can reject the gendered associations they have (and which I am forced, to some extent, to internalise or perform) in our culture.

I agree that 'mother' comes with a whole heap of connotations. Some negative, some positive.

When I had to complete various mortgage forms which asked for occupation (I wasn't working then), I crossed out housewife (as it was termed then) and wrote mother, though. As I felt it more aptly described my role.

But when people start sentences with as a mother, I usually take it to mean they have experience of raising children which might be informative to the person they are speaking with.

extra that is very interesting - my friend only started calling herself queer after we got married to a man! And it was a very traditional, gendered white wedding. So ... Why? Why not have a non-traditional wedding, or maybe not get married at all, or maybe live your life in a way that regularly challenges stereotypes, rather than conform to social norms but then just declare that you don't?

I also have a fb acquaintance who is a man married to a woman who calls himself queer. Often mentioned in posts about how we should call pregnant women 'birthing people' and such tosh. I have just decided that he's a total tosser.

datun I like that approach - calling yourself mother because of what it means to you. I think for me (and I'm sure I'm not alone in this), becoming a mother was the moment when the full weight of patriarchal capitalism came down on me like a tonne of bricks, so I'm very wary of the term and all its associations. Privately, I think about it like this: I love my DC and my relationship with them. But I don't identify with anything associated with motherhood, except in a strictly biological sense. I'm working through it though ...

Im a vegetarian and I find it very annoying when pescatarians call themselves vegetarian as it confuses the hellnout of everyone and then I end up at an awkward dinner party with a sea bass in front of me and an annoyed host who wonders why I won't eat my 'vegetarian' dinner.

I wonder if that's what being a lesbian is like at the moment. A load of straight women calling themselves 'queer' while merrily sucking dick and confusing the issue for lesbians.

As you can probably tell I use queer to describe myself (I'm bi but aromantic with women). Queer is a really nice way to describe myself. And I won't accept judgement from people who haven't even bothered to research

This was from a recent thread it sums up queer to me completely. The poster is basically saying they're bisexual but not in to women... which is straight last I checked. But the op was obv just a bigot for not researching queerness better

Why do people feel the need to describe themselves as anything? I've had relationships with men and women. I suppose that makes me bisexual but I don't feel the need to correct people if they assume I'm heterosexual if I'm in a relationship with a man

Actually I have no idea what people assume - I don't tend to discuss what box I fit in

No idea about the friend in question but just because someone is in a heterosexual relationship and even gets married does not mean they are straight.

sorry, but you don't seem to understand the umbrella of the word queer.
its literally anyone who identifies on the lgbtqia+ spectrum. there's a large problem with bi and pan erasure, and therefore for you to say she shouldn't claim the world queer is damaging and erasing bi and pansexual identities

I love my DC and my relationship with them. But I don't identify with anything associated with motherhood, except in a strictly biological sense

But you do identify with the main thing associated with motherhood, you just said it: you love your children and your relationship with them. I presume you also feed them, provide for them, teach them, clean up after them, drive them around, arrange their schooling, and a million other things associated with motherhood?

sorry, but you don't seem to understand the umbrella of the word queer

I think you don't, simply. By these standards the umbrella has pretty much everyone in it. That's inclusion to the point of obsoletion.

I think you don't, simply. By these standards the umbrella has pretty much everyone in it. That's inclusion to the point of obsoletion

no, its inclusion of the whole lgbtqia* community. straight people are not queer people. end of. anyone else in the community is queer, although some prefer not to use the term.

its not to the point of obseletion as it creates a space where anyone in the community feels comfortable. i'm queer, i told people at pride yesterday that i was queer when asked, but i didn't feel the need to describe the ins and outs of my sexual preferences. its a word which can be used without judgement (parts of the community of the community are notoriously anti--lesbian for example)

Yes will I care for them but I'm talking about the cultural, gendered role of 'mother.' I must be explaining myself very badly because, from a radical feminist perspective, I don't think it's a very controversial thing to say that the cultural role of 'mother' is problematic.

I can understand why some bi people in male-female relationships/marriages identify as straight. It's a lot easier than facing the "if you're bi why are you with a man?" questions.

For me, I still identify as bi. I put bisexual on official forms, and if asked about sexuality I will say I'm bisexual and answer any subsequent questions. The way I see it, DH is still straight even though he's married to me, so I'm still bi even though I'm married to him.

I think it must be hard to wrap your head around if you've never had any attraction to both sexes.