Can anyone explain queer heterosexuality to me?

[featherland]

I have noticed over the last few months / years more and more people I know on Facebook identifying themselves as queer, even though they are in heteronormative relationships.

For example, I went to a friend's wedding. It was very traditional - big white gown, all male speeches etc. she has been with her husband since she was a teenager and never (publicly) been in a relationship with a woman. She describes herself as femme and queer - and often posts photos of herself looking very beautiful and typically 'feminine' (makeup, pretty clothes ..) describing herself as such, with loads of pride emoticons.

I just .. Don't get it? I understand the desire to reject gender norms and heteronormativity. But surely those of us who are straight and in monogamous relationships can't just claim the word queer when we receive (willingly or not) all the social privileges of being straight?

And I can understand wanting to stand in solidarity with LGBTQ people. But don't we need to change heteronormative society rather than muscle in on the spaces created by and for people who are marginalised? Eg I am not married, mainly because I can't reconcile myself with the patriarchal history of marriage. I don't see that doing heteronormative tings and saying that you aren't is really queer? If there is such a thing as queer heterosexuality shouldn't it be about living in non normative ways?

Does mother have another meaning?

Could some of it be about wanting to be an ally though? Better to over identify with the LGBT+ community than to be predjudiced against people and homophobic?

feather and ovaries I'm with you too, have nearly started a thread about it loads of times. I had a relationship with a woman shortly before I met my husband and it confused the heck out of me as I'd assumed I was straight (was twenty). Then met husband and been with him 20 years. I hate it when I'm asked for a label. There is no point describing myself as bi because I'm in such a long standing het relationship. But then I feel disloyal to the woman I was with.
And I hate being asked as I find it all so confusing. Luckily most people don't bother asking as I'm a married mum so totally boring.
These people who post things like that on FB make me cringe. Read a really irritating article about it recently, I'll post a link

www.advocate.com/current-issue/2017/7/05/what-queer-family-looks#article-content

Whole thing is weird. Conventionally attractive man/woman relationship is an example of a "queer family"? A woman who's been in a sexual relationship with a man for a decade describes herself as a lesbian? So weird

Could some of it be about wanting to be an ally though? Better to over identify with the LGBT+ community than to be predjudiced against people and homophobic?

No. Why do you need to identify or over- identify to support rights of LGBT? I can no more identify as a lesbian or a bi- sexual than I can identify as say black or ethnically Jewish or an American indigenous woman.

juggling I suppose so but imo that's rather backwards in itself. It comes across as though it's trying to reassure lgb people you are ok with them, aren't you open minded as a straight person to allow people to have different sexual preferences to you. Giving yourself the right to approve. A bit 'othery' if it's used for that purpose.

If you really aren't prejudiced then you just think of people as people, rather than in terms of their sexuality.

Interesting thread as I had been wondering what the Q in LGBTQ was for. I'm in my 40s so queer to me is an insult for a gay man.

I think we're too quick to accept that bisexual means "attracted to both women and men" without thinking about whether a person is also monogamous. So it should be reasonable for someone who had a same-sex relationship in the past but has had a single hetero partner for years to say "I suppose back then I proved that I'm bisexual, but I seem to have settled down with X for the duration."

No. Why do you need to identify or over- identify to support rights of LGBT? I can no more identify as a lesbian or a bi- sexual than I can identify as say black or ethnically Jewish or an American indigenous woman.

This.

People generally agree that Rachel Dolezal, the white woman who identifies with black people so much she pretended to be black herself, is completely bonkers.

Why should other rules apply to other people?

Admittedly, it is a bit more complicated with sexual orientation, as people might not be sure about theirs, but if you are married to a man, and intend to stay that way, it is not doing lesbians and bisexual women a favour to call yourself "queer" on Facebook.
Next thing that happens could be parents telling their lesbian daughters that it's okay they're "queer", as they can still marry a man.

A bisexual woman who wants people to know she is bisexual even though she's married to a man should have the decency to describe herself as bisexual.
"Queer" is such a diffuse word. It could mean anything, and will only cause confusion.

I suppose it's harder to get one's head around bisexuality if one is straight. Harder than homosexuality.

Being straight, I can't imagining conjuring up the same feelings for a woman (although I could imagine pissed experimentation).

But, in my head, I would just substitute opposite sex for same sex - and get it.

But both sexes is more difficult to imagine/relate to.

Which is why, I think, bisexual people don't seem to get the same validation. People just think they must predominately come down on one side and the rest is 'messing about'.

Which is terribly unfair.

Drives me mad too. A friend's 17 year old daughter identifies as "trans" (she has short hair but wears a ton of make up, presents as entirely female) and "queer" (she has a boyfriend but since she's a "boy" they are gay apparently). I'm in my 40s, I've known lots of people who suffered physical and verbal abuse for being gay and I wouldn't dream of appropriating a word that I remember as a slur, or piggybacking onto their identity for some trivial reason. They're just attention seeking eejits and offensive too.

known lots of people who suffered physical and verbal abuse for being gay and I wouldn't dream of appropriating a word that I remember as a slur
Same for me. When I was a student I lived in a house share with two gay men. i remember walking through the estate with a Gang following us shouting 'queer' at us. I remember sitting in casualty with one housemate after he'd been beaten up. That word for me has hateful Conatations. i just don't get it.

Just to add, I understand the idea of reclaiming slurs, and how gay people use it. Straight people bandying it around is like white people using the n-word to be honest.

Yes I totally agree about the comparison with race - I don't 'identify' positively with everything about being white, but I can't just pretend that I'm not, or that I don't receive the privileges associated with it. I have always thought it is more to do with social perceptions rather than self identification. Eg I'm a woman but I don't identify with most of the associations of the female gender. That's what I was (clumsily) trying to say about motherhood too - I'm a mother but I don't identify with any of the socially acceptable permutations of the role of 'mother' as defined & reinforced in our culture at large. In fact, I find them suffocating and oppressive in exactly the same was as most other gender norms.

I guess another aspect of that particular fb friend's identity that I find problematic is the 'femme' part. She adheres to all conventional gender norms (and presumably receives all the 'privileges' associated) but says she's not? Because I find all those gender norms so difficult, j just don't get her position.

datum very interesting about sexuality! I've always assumed everyone is bi but it's just society that forces people to pretend they are one way or the other!

(as in, i assumed we were all on a spectrum, and that if we lived in a free society then we could all have relationships with people regardless of gender, rather than having to identify iur sexual preferences as some kind of personality feature ...)

Sorry - I'm very tired and not being very articulate at the moment.

I meant to say that I've always assumed our social identities are more to do with social permissions than with true self representation. And so in a very real sense we are born into it, and have to reconcile the position we find ourselves in. As a white mother in a monogamous relationship with a man I don't really like any of the cultural conventions associated with those labels, or even the labels themselves. But I have to find a way to live with them/ challenge them through the way I live.

datum very interesting about sexuality! I've always assumed everyone is bi but it's just society that forces people to pretend they are one way or the other!

I really don't think so. There are clearly societies where being homosexual is problematic but like datum I'm sure my complete lack of interest in women as sexual partners has nothing to do with societal expectations.

featherland

I do find it very interesting, actually.

Because I have wondered the same thing. Whether it is just convention that makes me straight.

But I've concluded that it just isn't in me to fall in love with another woman.

But I can separate out sex and love.

It would be far easier to experiment sexually rather than emotionally, if you see what I mean.

But it would just be that - an experiment. It doesn't get me going.

Perhaps someone can make sense of this for me?

Pass.

Oops

Oh sorry, I thought the photo hadn't been attached!

Sorry, I meant I passed on trying to make any sense of it.