Women managing the household - the 'mental load'

[moutonfou]

Just read this Guardian article with interest link

TLDR: it's not about how much a man helps in the house, it's about how women are almost always in charge of the household - expected to know what needs doing/paying/renewing/cancelling and when and either to do it or direct their partner to do it. The author calls it a 'mental load' which men don't have to put up with - they wipe a toilet and feel satisfied they are contributing.

It really struck a chord with me, especially the bit where the tidying of a simple table generates a whole list of additional tasks, but all the man sees is that a table has been tidied. I am totally in this position - always feel like I am forgetting something and it's on me if anything isn't done, always mystified when DH claims completely sincerely that he does even near to how much I do. I always thought I had taken on the role myself - but this made me doubt that.

Thoughts?

Just sayin'

Poach it was more of a rhetorical question. I thought it was common knowledge that women's brains were slightly different. I'm not sure if it explains this issue though.

But here is a link:amp.livescience.com/41619-male-female-brains-wired-differently.html

And Jelly I agree

I must be a pretty crap woman in that case. I struggle with housework, can't do DIY or anything intricate, my organisational skills are rubbish. In fairness, I am dyspraxic so it is natural for me to struggle with all these things but I am trying to learn and improve. DH is better at almost everything than me and, honestly, that cartoon makes me think that I am pretty crap according to both the regressive and progressive side.

NOT A STEALTH BOAST but I love threads like these because DP genuinely shares the mental load and I should remember.

We're on holiday just now, which he arranged all of because I was studying and he sorted the cat sitters, getting the neighbours to put the bins out etc etc.

I've had the alternative and I couldn't go back. Interestingly my dad was the same and my dm admitted after he died she had no flipping idea what did. But gender roles in our family were very different from the norm.

My DH just doesn't care about the way the house looks as much as I do. He has always lived in a tip with periodic (and formerly huffy) mass tidy ups.

(I think this huffiness was a hangover from living in a "perfect" home run by his mother but she didn't pass on the skills. He has the occasional look about and finds himself disappointed due to the unrealistic expectations!)

I wasn't raised to do tidying as we lived in a mess, both parents worked.

If I tidy now, I do it for me. But often we leave it messy.

My burden as I see it is healthy eating, which I do care about and while my DH thanks me for it he then buys sugary junk far too often. Now that gets me going..

I knew a woman who worked full time and had two young children, her husband would be "annoyed and upset" if he came home from a work trip to find the house messy. I truly felt sorry for this woman but she seemed accepting of it! Her mum had been an organised housewife when raising her family. Women like my acquaintance have been sold a pup.

As a single parent there's nobody else to share this load with anyway. Bit of a first world problem for those lucky enough to have a relationship imo

... a happy relationship when the man contributes perhaps. A lot of women are dealing with men who do very little and actually create more work around the house - extra washing, extra mess.

I often think it'd easier to be a single parent so long as the other partner does take the kids weekly or fortnightly to allow you to catch up and get on with things. The grass is always greener I suppose.

Yes user. Very true.

This becomes crippling as a working lone parent. Now my dc's are junior school age they have more activites and tasks but it's still down to me to deal with it all. All my attempts to get them to take more responsibility fall on deaf ears.

AfraidOfMyShadow

I don't think anyone disputes there may be some differences between male and female brains, as much as there are differences between one female and the next. It's all a mosaic. The problem is using fairly minor differences to impose majorly different roles.

The findings lend support to the view that males may excel at motor skills, while women may be better at integrating analysis and intuitive thinking.

I'm not sure how doing the washing, cooking, ironing and writing Christmas cards is a function of intuition, but not motor skills, when they actually require motor skills!

It also rather begs the question of how a man could possibly run a department, or recruit people, or make it to appointments on time, or set up meetings. When at the same time he can't remember dental appointments, hairdressers, checking homework, or returning school reports.

And presumably the 'head of the household' should be the person who runs it, not the person who merely avails themself of its services

And as the brain is nothing if not immensely pliable, they can't tell whether the brain affects behaviour or behaviour affects the brain.

Currently, scientists can't quantify how much an individual has male- or female-like patterns of brain connectivity. Another lingering question is whether the structural differences result in differences in brain function, or whether differences in function result in structural changes.

The fact that women were deemed too stupid to understand what voting means, to work outside the house, or receive an education severely limited their opportunities for hundreds of years.

The 'a woman's place is in the home' is nothing more than a residue of this thinking.

Datun I agree with that - also want to state I don't agree with enforced gender roles! I just wanted to provide another possible reason why women seem to gravitate to this responsibility.

Also you mention the stereotypical chores women do like organising etc but I thought this thread was more about the mental load - so knowing what needs to be done even if you delegate.

In my experience men get more self worth from external sources maybe due to their upbringing which would explain why they don't mind managing a company but don't think it worth their time to manage a home.

I don't think those who follow traditional gender roles really believe that anymore.

This might have be more appropriate up thread.

Decades ago I was worn out with the mental load. I worked 1-2 days a week, cared for a seriously ill family member, had two children with SEN and a husband who worked hard to bring in the money but the only contribution he made to the home was to pour me a cup of tea from his pot in the mornings.

I organised holidays amongst the vast load.
This particular holiday, we arrived and I'd forgotten to pack some of his clothes (shock horror).
I received a lot of angry ranting. But after this, I used to say, I'm not packing for you anymore. This was met with more ranting and angry words , but I didn't ever pack for him again.

Another time I got cross as he'd only come to the table when he was ready to eat. I always shouted 10 minutes till supper. So my dinners would go cold, we were sat like lemons (with his family) waiting for him. I put his down the waste disposal on this occasion. He was hopping mad, but he did come to the table to eat when called after this day.

Other times I used to take my children camping on my own. It was easier to erect a tent and look after to small children than deal with the disappointment of someone who could have helped but chose not to.

If he came he'd sit and read a paper whilst I organised unloading the car,erecting the tent, setting up a stove, blowing up beds, feeding children, showering children and settling them for the night. His contribution? Oh yes, 'he had driven us '.

I could write pages on this.

For me, this is now a past life. Today my new husband will strip and make a bed without being told, will often put shopping away. Scans the fridge and buys food. Organises all holidays, organises all things relating to transport, mows the lawns, does the bins, organises paying bills, cleans the bath, clears the table, empties dishwasher regularly, irons his shirts if I forget and always organise and post gifts for his family.

I can't believe the difference half a load makes. I've been smiling widely for years.

Good for you mumble, good for you.

AfraidOfMyShadow

In my experience men get more self worth from external sources maybe due to their upbringing which would explain why they don't mind managing a company but don't think it worth their time to manage a home.

Well yes, that's male socialisation, and it self perpetuates. It's not innate. It's not an inborn difference between men and women.

Datun

I'm not sure we can say that for sure. I think there is a reason things have always been this way and a part of it may be innate.

Bollocks.

School summer stuff is a classic example.

I don't know many men who do stuff for school fairs, organise summer childcare, sort out teachers' gifts and cards, all the crap kids bring home from school, lost uniform. They just turn up at (some) events.

If I left things up to DH I doubt DSS would have a uniform, school supplies and I'm sure I'm the one who knows the names of his teachers.

So his ex took the menfal load and now you do!

Not really. DSSs mum is not the kind of women I'd imagine would tak any mental load. She hasn't any relationship with him.

The things is though someone has to take on the mental load and many men just won't do it. But DC have to be cared for as does your home (finances, holidays, maintainance). Why are females more likely to do it in the first place?

I have been thinking about this lately.

And this is not a stealth boast it is a statement of fact.

We have a new patio, because I sorted it.

When it transpired that the last bit hadn't been laid correctly I sorted the pea shingle trap.

We have a redesigned garden because I sorted it.

We have a stripey lawn courtesy of the gardener because I sorted it.
Granted DH is too busy to do it, but again I sorted it.

We have new garden furniture, because I sorted it.

We both had new (to us) cars in the last year, because I saved the money. Joint money but it was me that sorted the savings account.

P11D day soon, there will be a tax bill, guess who saved the money.

Small pensions cashed in and the mortgage paid down to under £20k,
guess who drove that.

Holiday this year, who paid the flights on credit card and then chunked away at the balance.

Guess who has the guts of the accommodation bill in a separate savings account.

Guess who arranged the new French doors.

This thread has been an eyeopener.

Trouble this isn't surprising but does it have to make you feel angry?

Probably not, I do own a stroppy teen as well.

I feel better for having posted.

He does work very hard and pulls his weight at the weekend but all the crapmin is left to me.

Ah well, c'est la vie.

Particularly since kids started school and I'm the one who takes them and mostly collects them, I've noticed the associated mental load.
MrNC actually takes much of the mental load in certain areas and I do in others, and some things like organising holidays I actually enjoy (and, importantly, he really is happy with what I come up with!)

But there has been the odd argument - once when ds was a baby he complained that he'd done X and Y and Z, and I retorted that I'd done A and B and C - and he was startled and said "but that doesn't count because you like paperwork!" I told him that I liked paperwork in the sense that I much preferred it to scrubbing toilets; it didn't mean I wouldn't prefer not to do it and watch TV instead, so it counted.

It's a fine line between me doing organising stuff because I have the time/capacity/am actually better at it, and me doing it because it's expected.

Mostly we balance reasonably well because MrNC is a decent human being and even if he's too dyslexic to write a letter for something he will ask if I could do it and then remind me it needs doing.

AfraidOfMyShadow

I have no doubt about, say, the hormonal rush the women get
after bearing a child. If you're breastfeeding, it stands to reason that nature would give you a hand with being happy about it.

But tell a woman with three children under four that her doing all the mothering is innate and she is likely to crack you one.

Take a look at how many children women had before contraception. Victorian families of 12 or 14 were not unusual. As soon as they had a choice we get down to 2.5.

Take a look at the Nordic model of paternity leave. Studies have shown that when men spend a significant amount of time with their youngsters and babies, the bond lasts a life time and the mental load is far more divided.

It's not innate. It's practice.

Coupled with the fact that we can't force men to do it. We can't just dump our kids on them and stop.

Even leaving them for a weekend involves a massive amount of arranging and organising. And even then, many women are not fully confident that their husbands will do it properly.

If I was 100% sure that my DH knew exactly what to do, how to do it, the routine, what they like, don't like, do all the food, laundry, etc, I wouldn't have hesitated to have gone away for the weekend.

But I wasn't.

And not because he couldn't. He hyst hadn't had the practice.