Why do some feminists not want sons?

[TeaGreenNC]

Hi, can I just say: some is definitely an important word in my title!

It's just I've seen on a couple of gender disappointments threads where they said reasons they are disappointed is because they're a feminist? I don't think its right to tag them, but that was said.

I'm just wondering what having a son has got to do with being a feminist?

No but I have plenty of evidence of polls and studies which show people would rather have sons, and favour sons when they do have them.

noloveofmine

You're only 17.. you can't possibly know what people who have had children wanted the sex of their child to be..

I was a "know it all" at your age too

I haven't seen you on any recent threads other than a new music one and an Aibu one where your posts were deleted before I saw the thread.

If you find yourself in an ante natal class you may well be surprised at the negativity at the prospect of having a boy. I was.

I've noticed a bit of a fist bumping attitude amongst the men if they have sons. Quite openly. A friend of ours has had two daughters, quite late in life. There is a definite attitude of you'll have to pay for two weddings, double the trouble, wait till they're 16, what about boyfriends. A certain rueful sympathy. (Not from him, he's besotted).

nolove

You being an ardent feminist, you probably notice sexism in teenage boys more than a lot of your peers.

I can easily imagine a teenage boy dismissing the idea of daughters. But that's because he's a teenager.

The above comment not withstanding, by the time they actually get to reproduce, it does change somewhat.

There is also an attitude, probably understandably, that daughter is a good idea because they are more supportive to their mothers long term.

I have two sons and I hadn't quite realised how 'male' the dynamic is in our house until my eldest acquired a steady girlfriend and she spent a lot of time with us.

The shift was subtle, but it was there.

I found this article from the daily mail www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2699616/Growing-numbers-potential-parents-going-America-IVF-treatment-choose-sex-child.html. that claims that 80% of Brits travelling to the us for sex selection opt for boys. There are not all necessary feminist though. And not all feminist make all feminist decision all of the time.

I've seen more feminists claim not having children at all is more feminist, than I have saying having girls is preferable.

Most of the gender disappointment posts on MN are about wanting a girl, usually to replicate their own mother-daughter or sisterly relationships. Sometimes because of a notion of shared "feminine interests" - this is usually firmly debunked by other posters.

IRL all the women I know who've had multiple boys have expressed some sadness at not having a girl.

I always wanted a girl - maybe for the familial relationship reasons above, but also to raise my own strong feminist daughter to help smash the patriarchy, or at least dent it.

Having had a DS and then 6 mc, if I ever have another successful pregnancy then I will obviously be beyond delighted. In spite of this, I won't pretend that I wouldn't still be secretly hoping for a girl - but I will obviously be thrilled and grateful with either.

Sorry, it should say opt for girls. Subtle difference, but quite important

Domestic violence perpetrated by sons on mothers is a lot more common than people think.

Society has no solution for it.

It's still taboo.

No wonder women are scared.

I have a completely trivial reason - when I was pregnant with my second, I did think it would be nice to have the set - one boy and one girl - but not enough to actually care about it, just in a completest way.

I'm pretty grumpy, so no-one's ever asked if I'll try again for a third and hope for girl. I doubt I will go for a third, but if I did, I still wouldn't care what it was - I think being very gender non-conforming myself, and not having a close relationship with my sisters or mothers means I don't have that pull (plus my boys are lovely, and one of them tends to be interested in whatever I'm doing fairly often).

I can think of one feminist reason a woman might want daughters - and that's because they feel strongly enough that they don't want to risk raising an oppressor - but that's pretty hardcore, separatist level of thinking, I don't think it's common. I think that as MrsTP says, most of the time it's the familiarity, companionship angle (which is nothing to do with feminism in particular)

I apologise for derailing the thread. I see things too personally sometimes and it's a weakness in debating/viewing issues I have which I should be more mindful of - so in this case I took what I believe to be the case in terms of people generally favouring sons and started posting that on this thread where it's not totally relevant. Sorry, and for the tone of my posts. I very much don't think I know it all though can see how it sometimes comes across as if I do.

Datun that's very true. Also interesting on why some might favour girls; possibly down to a sexist view of women's role in itself, expecting a daughter to be more likely to be supportive/able to give care in the future? Whereas a son might be perceived to be going to be too busy.

NoLove

Thank you Lass and sorry for my posts to you; thanks for being supportive of me even though we sometimes disagree

I suppose that in theory a woman might imagine herself raising a dedicated young feminist, dreaming that one day they'd march side by side against the patriarchy, like the Pankhursts. Such a vision wouldn't have much room for male offspring. But people generally seem to love their children no matter what, so I don't think it's very realistic; the would-be Pankhurst would probably readjust her outlook.

"Emmeline Pankhurst's Son" could actually be screamingly funny, though.

I concede it's probably totally unfair of me, but I can't help thinking that those parents who have a really strong preference for one sex over the other (usually because they think in stereotypes) probably shouldn't have children.

Failing that it would be poetic justice if they are landed with a son who likes fashion, glitter and unicorns or a daughter who becomes a prop forward at rugby.

When i was at uni appatently Sheila Jeffries would tell first years in her lectures she didn't have children in case she had a boy.

No idea if it's actually true, but her feminist student admirers said she was quite open about it.

Back in the day when the lesbian feminists I used to know were thinking about having kids it was an issue and especially when rumours went around that self insemination was more likely to produce males. As with Jeffries those who couldn't stomach the idea of producing another male probably decided to not try to have kids. It was just the way things were when we had to do it all ourselves anyway.

Most women I know long for a daughter and are disappointed if they don't have one. I think it's lovely that we value girls when they aren't wanted or valued in many other cultures.

NoLove I've seen loads of your posts and I've always thought it would be ace to have a daughter just like you.

But I have a son and whilst it may be challenging in terms of sitting on a pee-covered seat and putting up with hideous testosteroney mood swings it does fit in with my plan of changing the world.

I've raised him to be a feminist and he is quite ardent. Every now and again he'll burst into my room with a "oh my god, did you know that there are x million girls missing in China?!" or some such thing.

I try to sound shocked but his outrage does make me hopeful.

Sorry, my point being that feminists can achieve a lot by having sons. I've never seen any here say they'd rather have daughters.

Sometimes it seems impossible to raise the enlightened people one would wish for, my Ds is fairly unreconstructed at 8, and his 5 year old sister is a vision in pink tulle. I think the only way to get past their inner stereotypes would be Clockwork Orange style
Fwiw, I wanted a girl first and got a boy, wanted a brother for him and got a girl, so gender disappointment at both scans. It didn't last more than.few days

Just to note, I very much kept the disappointment to myself. It did not seem acceptable to express a preference for either, just gratitude for a healthy baby. Maybe that was just me though.

I'm a feminist and I specifically wanted a son because I grew up in an all female household.
He's a wonderful son too, he's 35 now and how I wish I could have found a husband like him.
It shows men are decent and wonderful if they are brought up properly and taught to respect other people.
There will always be the uber feminist who prefers daughters but in my mind that's the easy way out. We have a duty to ensure our sons are decent human beings and that takes work.

Thank you very much for the lovely comment Lessthanaballpark! Your son sounds fantastic. How old is he? I think it is important for feminists who want children to cherish having either, as whilst I see the power of girls and women to fight misogyny as incredible as has always been the case it's also important to have supportive boys too. I certainly know a couple of boys who tell me they have strong, feminist mothers.

In terms of being challenging my parents would assure you I do my fair share of terrorising them

I'm a feminist but before having DC I only ever wanted boys. This was entirely because of my relationships with other girls as a child/teen. I never understood social norms & had zero faith in my ability to raise a daughter who could navigate the realities of growing up female in our society.

I currently have 2 boys one who loves anything pink & am expecting DC3. I'd quite like this one to be a girl so I'd get to experience the difference in expectations from others. Also partly so I could dress her in her brothers' hand-me-downs & give looks to anyone who suggested pink dresses... I wouldn't stop her wearing them if she wanted to though DS has cute pink clothes. One of my DSs has ASD & I think we're doing alright raising him to be confident in who he is as an individual so my concerns about navigating the social world of teenage girls have decreased somewhat. I think a lot of my difficulties could've been resolved if I'd had an adult paying attention & helping me work through issues - my DC will all have that.