Male plastic surgeons "correcting" the female body.

[peripericardium]

I was researching scar revision for self-harm scarring I have, and ended up in the world of cosmetic surgery.

Here is an example of a quote from a website:
"Removal of the excess labia can create a more natural appearance and the patient will still be able to feel sensation after surgery."

So, removing what is naturally present will make a vulva look "more natural"?

There are endless photos of normal tits turned into pneumatic boulders with nipples surgically reshaped and reattached.

On one website, there is a huge selection of before/after photos of women who've been "fixed" and a small sub-section for "male procedures".

I've seen slides for labioplasty where a man arrogantly describes his improvement of the labia by removing "excess".

I did find one website for a female cosmetic surgeon, but it was mostly focused on reconstruction after breast cancer and breast reduction, rather than implants which seem to be the focus of the male websites.

I don't necessarily judge women for pursuing cosmetic surgery. After all, by looking into getting my scars reduced, I am in the same box.

But it is incredibly sad that normal variants in female anatomy are being "corrected" for a huge fee by a small number of men who think they know what a woman should look like.

Nonsense indeed! What ever happens naturally is natural.

What kind of woman has her labia made neater! Mine would make a good before picture I'd say but what kind of fragile self-esteem owner of ''irregular labia'' would actually check herself in to get them made neater?! You have to pity that woman. And no it's not the same as getting scars

ENFJ I have seen a documentary about labioplasty, and the woman who wanted it done had been made to feel self-conscious by ex-partners openly commenting that her labia were unnatural and hideous.

I'm assuming they all have perfect cocks that look like Tom Hardy?

I once watched a documentary a few years back and the girl who was getting the surgery done said she used to go to bars etc with her sister and when they were chatting to boys, her sister would talk about her sister's labia and how ugly it was and how it hung down etc and they would all laugh etc. It was really horrible. So she was spending thousands getting surgery, when really what she needed to do was never speak to her sister again!

These young attractive women with such low self-esteem must be like free prostitutes to these awful horrible men, who as ikboo says, never feel any inclination to go on a diet never mind have their penises tampered with.

I guess from the surgeons pov, the fact is, there is sadly a demand for this procedure.

If only young attractive women with low self-esteem could channel the ''competitiveness' they feel in to something more productive. Because it is competitive. Kind of. They want to ''compete'' in their own bananas world by having neat labia. Imagine if they channeled that energy in to a journey of self-discovery.

A friend of mine who is in her 40s and should no better blames women for this kind of thing. She says it's women who criticise women. Women who buy Closer, women who comment on the daily mail. And I can see why she believes that but why do they do that?!

Because ............. (amongst other reasons) women with no power still feel that they need the approval and the acceptance of men. Not even individual men perhaps but society is patriarchal and so they only route they can see to validation is through a man's approval. So along comes ONE entitled jack ass and he makes a judgement on their labia and they think they need neater labia to be a proper person.

I have labia that rub and chafe. If I could afford to get them made neater I would.

Not for a man, but for me, they are uncomfortable.

I did see a programme where a woman had it done and they'd removed too much! Turns out that the labia does have a purpose - it protects everything that is hidden underneath and also acts as a funnel for pee. Everytime she went to the loo her urine sprayed everywhere and she was too ashamed to ever have sex again. Unsurprisingly the operation was also extremely painful.

You do realise that the horrible male attitude you're all going on about is the minority rather than the norm don't you? Its just the inly attitude that people can be vocal about. I have absolutely NO issues with the female form (or male!) In any shape or size and think it's extremely important that all people can feel comfortable in their skins. But it's hard to promote this as a male without apparently being a pervert or whatever.

I hate the idea being pushed on people (especially younger people) that women are perfect and neat and smooth and love anal, blowjobs and being covered in semen a la porn/internet.

I also find, some of the most overly critical and harsh out of order comments are from other women! How can you expect SOME men to change their opinions and attitudes when a lot of women won't?

Oh sweet Jesus. If I promise to get namdt tattooed on my forehead will you shut up.

Op, you are correct. This is yet another example of men making a lot of money on the back of women's insecurities about their body. Now I wonder where these insecurities come from?

Booble Why are you on the feminist boards if you can't bear to witness the patriarchy being critiqued without getting personally offended?

I'm sorry you're upset about a discussion concerning women getting their genitalia surgically altered.

Queen, your comment about the labia funneling pee reminds me of my DM who says she can tell which of her friends were peeing in which cubicle because they made distinctive sounds due to their genital arrangements.

I have large labia minora and they make it easy to orgasm through PIV. OK, I'm a child of the 70s and attitudes may have changed, but I've had several compliments on my lush, complex vulva.

I don't know if it is men in particular or just a money-making factory. I remember when my dd was ten and suddenly needed designer clothes because everyone in school marginalised and even laughed at the kids who didn't have them. Obviously marketing realises how much that age group feel the need to conform and really hones in on their vulnerabilities. The same everytime a woman feels ugly.

My stomach was turned by the opposite - labia pulling, to stretch it. On the BBC News recently. So basically the same thing - natural labia not being considered acceptable.

I'm not sure it's actually men who are saying oi love, you need to have a perfect labia. I should imagine most men would be only too delighted to get within a hair's breadth of one.

But they are certainly implying it in pornography. They must take a protractor to those girls' fannies to make sure they're that symmetrical.

Women (and men) see that and think oh my God my labia is wrong. When in fact they come in as many shapes and sizes as do feet.

As far as I know (chatting to girlfriends), an asymmetrical labia is the norm.

peri you're completely missing my point. It is Not the majority of the patriarchy that are the problem or have a problem. Datun puts it perfectly. Men really couldn't give two fucks what your labia looks like. By time they're seeing it's it's really the last thing they are going to be bothered about.

The only people I have ever heard making derogatory comments about someone else's labia are other women (or friends complaining about their own - to whom I am adamant they are normal).

I dislike anyone who body shames anybody. Regardless of sex or reason (there is no acceptable reason)

Booble I have heard many men referring to larger labia as "roast beef". There are memes all over the Internet about it. Claiming that no men do this is absolutely ridiculous.

I'm not sure it's actually men who are saying oi love, you need to have a perfect labia. I should imagine most men would be only too delighted to get within a hair's breadth of one.

I would have assumed that, too, but then, you'd also assume that men would be happy and grateful if a woman engaged in casual sex with them and would make sure that she orgasms so that she'll want to do it again.

However, I frequently read that this is not, in fact, what happens. Porn and prostitution have made men feel entitled to women's bodies.

These young attractive women with such low self-esteem must be like free prostitutes to these awful horrible men,

That hits the nail on the head. In a society where prostitution is seen as normal and acceptable, men see all women as prostitutes.

I wouldn't say this attitude didn't exist before, but porn certainly has contributed to men not just seeing all women as prostitutes, but also expecting that they all look the same, i.e. like the women in porn.

By the way - it's me who finds them uncomfortable in skinny jeans for eg. No man has ever passed comment.

By the way - it's me who finds them uncomfortable in skinny jeans for eg. No man has ever passed comment.

Perhaps you shouldn't wear skinny jeans, then, or have them tailored with more space in the crotch.

I would see your point if you were uncomfortable naked, but if you feel uncomfortable only in clothes, and very specific clothes at that ... then perhaps the problem is not your body, the problem is the clothes.

Surgery is not magic. If you have surgery, there always is risk, and there are scars afterwards. Scars that might lead to more chafing.

Fabric, on the other hand, is easily altered to fit your body.

Rude much? I was merely pointing out my issue.

Why the fuck are you so aggressively jumping down my throat?

I like skinny jeans. I like how they fit on my legs. I can't get them "tailored" with more space in the crotch because I am skint single parent of teens and also because they won't be skinny jeans then.

I usually wear straight leg. I have one pair of skinny jeans - black - that I like to wear on a night out.

They also don't fit in some style of knickers, so I have to be careful what I buy. Tights also tend to rub them (esp tights as they are nylon) if I'm not careful how I tuck them into my knickers so that they don't get irritated.

I don't wear stockings and / or hold ups because I have fat thighs so please don't suggest them, as they don't stay up.

I never thought I'd get jumped on quite so aggressively for just stating my opinion on my own body. How is it feminist to tell me I should dress in a particular way?

I'm not modifying my body - I cant' afford it and I'd never ask for it on the NHS. And even if I was, I'm not doing it because I'm some kind of handmaid, or to meet some pornified standard I'm 52 ffs. I'd be doing it because I find them uncomfortable at times.

And your attitude towards me, and that reply, was, in my opinion, unnecessarily aggressive and not helpful.

And for the record. they rub on the inside of my thighs sometimes, even naked.

That hits the nail on the head. In a society where prostitution is seen as normal and acceptable, men see all women as prostitutes.

This is brilliantly proven by that website that was mentioned on MN recently, where Johns meet up to discuss their adventures with prostitutes.

The men discussed how they assess every woman in their life in terms of what her hourly rate would be.

One even admitted to drunkenly propositioning his boss's wife by passing her £50 at a works 'do'.

We need to move away from the idea that porn and prostitutes are things that a minority of, already scummy, men use. The presence of these things in society fuels male entitlement to women's bodies.

Oh peri get over yourself. At no point EVER have I said NO man has said that. The majority don't.

I wasn't going to comment on this, but seeing the reaction @ifeelcraptonight got I felt a need to add my say. (Although I have to say I feel pretty vulnerable posting on this thread).

I am that "kind of woman" as was so delightfully put by @ENFJ who elected to have a labioplasty when I was 23 years old. It was entirely my choice to seek surgery, I'd considered it for approximately 5 years. There were several factors that contributed to my eventual decision to book a consultation. I won't lie, one was comments I'd received from one male in my teens. Also the (idiot) I was dating at the time I started to seriously consider surgery watched a lot of pornography and would openly comment on the ladies' labia and how some were nicer than others. I'd be lying if I didn't say that these judgements from others didn't affect how I felt about myself, as they did. However... like Ifeellikecraptonight an equally major impact on me was the physical effect of having 'large' labia. I was in genuine physical discomfort in anything close to a skinny jean, swimming costumes weren't pleasant at all and bike riding actually reduced me to tears (no matter what I wore) as it was just horrendously uncomfortable.

I own my body and I owned my decision to have the surgery. Six years on I don't regret my decision at all. It's not for everyone, and I'm not saying by any means that people should have surgery at all, but for me the psychological and physical benefits I've gained from it outweigh the financial cost. If I'm being honest (and with all due respect) I actually found ENFJ's initial reply to be pretty judgemental towards women who would choose this surgery... and in some ways is that not the same problem as was mentioned originally- people judging other people?? So thank you for your offer to "pity" me, but I'm actually pretty happy and good without the pity thank you! 😊

Boob you very much did say that. No need to be so aggressive.

Men really couldn't give two fucks what your labia looks like. By time they're seeing it's it's really the last thing they are going to be bothered about.

The only people I have ever heard making derogatory comments about someone else's labia are other women