Prostitution; help me argue on Facebook

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I'm arguing with a friend on FB about prostitution. She is the most libfem, choosy choice, libertarian person I know. Currently at college so every second post is about gender neutral bathrooms and the like. I almost never engage.

But her argument is that most prostitution is hidden and therefore we can't know that these workers aren't happy, healthy, free and consenting. I've given her the PTSD stats and the violence and rape stats. But she is insisting that these invisible women are all loving it.

Any stats on home-based, self-employed workers? Also, I know that people here have said that workers' organisations are frequently dominated by pimps. Where's the proof of that. And, former workers who are radfem/anti-sex work and have written pieces about it?

Sorry to use your labour

For what reason are women inherently better people than men?

Approx 99% of sex crimes are perpetrated by men.
Of the 0-2% women it is hard to say without any studies whether there is a strong prevelance of mental illness or if they tend to be an accomplice to a man or whatever.

For what reason are women inherently better people than men?

Perhaps because we don't need to have the primal urge to fuck, thump and kill everything we see methodically socialised out of us?

I'm being facetious of course.

So if a child was molested by a woman, what would you say to him or her in terms of explanation? Your mum/aunt/babysitter could not help it - she was mentally ill? She was just doing what the patriarchy told her?

I know someone who killed herself as a result of being molested by a woman. A relative acting alone.

So your're saying..or would say to such a victim...what happened to you wasn't really your abusers fault..and then they'll wonder whose fault it was. And they'll conclude that it was their fault.

Perhaps because we don't need to have the primal urge to fuck, thump and kill everything we see methodically socialised out of us?

Yes but why do you not have that primal urge?

You should understand that you're in a sense saying misogyny is not cultural but primal. That men are primed by nature to rape and kill. That is what patriarchal men have said for hundreds of years.

what happened to you wasn't really your abusers fault..and then they'll wonder whose fault it was. And they'll conclude that it was their fault

Slow clap dear

Why would they need to conclude it was their own fault if the woman was in a state of psychosis?

In fact, don't bother answering. You are clearly attempting a slow ponderous socratic method.

Hypothetical this, hypothetical that.... yawn.

Yes but why
I said I was being facetious. The jury is out on that one. It's perfectly possible for humans to live in peace.

Why would they need to conclude it was their own fault if the woman was in a state of psychosis?

Oh no. That's rubbish. Lots of people who are psychotic don't molest children. Please do not presume to defend paedophiles with mental illness.

I think he's got Marxist Tourette's, no matter what's being discussed he can't help but spout Marx.

I think he's got Marxist Tourette's

😂

Lots of people who are psychotic don't molest children

Obvs, but people in a paranoid psychotic state can so all sorts of weird stuff that can put themselves or others at risk. That's why it is a defence in a court of law.

Obvs, but people in a paranoid psychotic state can so all sorts of weird stuff that can put themselves or others at risk. That's why it is a defence in a court of law.

They usually do something like stab someone that a voice in their head is telling them is the devil or a robot alien.

They don't molest children. That isn't a delusional action. It's an act of abuse that requires a sexual interest in children and a degree of calculation.

This is getting boring but there are some mentally ill mothers with weird religious fixations, (lots of psychotic people have religious obsessions, etc) that have a sexual sadistic/misogynist bent.

You are clearly speaking about a very specific and extremely rare situation.

Yes, there are lots of mentally unstable male paedophiles. Paedophiles generally aren't in a perfect state of mental health - in fact quite a few of them have been abused themselves. Does that make what they do one iota more excusable? No.

Because lots of people who have been abused and/or have mental health issues do not sexually abuse children.

This is so boring. You yourself brought mental illness into it. Why don't you just cut to the chase and state what you are here for.

This has escalated into something very odd...

I didn't bring mental illness into it, you did. I quote:

Of the 0-2% women it is hard to say without any studies whether there is a strong prevelance of mental illness or if they tend to be an accomplice to a man or whatever

I don't think escalate is a word I'd use.
inde is slowly trying to use the socratic method to get us to accept an argument we don't agree with by trying to getting us to concede premise by premise (that's why he is throwing loads of weird irrelevant curveballs). This grand plan will in the end, he hopes, lead to his final gotcha! moment.
However he is not very good at this and his opponents are cleverer and more informed than he is, so the weirdness you are witnessing is his desperate attempts to shepherd the thread back on track to where he wants it. Don't waste your brain on it pirate

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about.

Would you ever in a million years explain make paedophilia with mental illness? I doubt it. So why apply such a double standard?

So Sillage, if a woman, say, molests a child, she's either a mentally disturbed aberration or patriarchy is somehow acting through her?
I was responding to this.

Oh that's really interesting GuardianLion I assume you have come across this tactic before?

How would you feel about explaining a bit about how it works and how independent is applying it so that we can identify it?

I'm not trying to get you to concede anything. I'm telling you, as respectfully as I can, that your values are inconsistent and hypocritical.

Sorry for the Wikipedia link en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method
Basically, if someone keeps on about hypothetical situations to get you to agree to something and then uses your agreement to then accuse you of contradicting yourself or hypocrisy - they are doing it. Socrates was a pain in the arse for doing this, because he could make people accept all sorts of crap this way.

Ha ha - I only just saw inde''s post after I posted what I posted!

I think it's pretty inconsistent and hypocritical to come onto a feminist board to derail threads and complain that women do it too, but hey ho. I'm a female, therefore intellectually sub par and so you shouldn't trouble yourself with my views.