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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Grace and Frankie

19 replies

PhoenixJasmine · 12/04/2017 21:48

Anyone else seen this? It's a tv show on Netflix. I'm mid season 2 and just fab!

Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin are both amazing to start with but I love the characters and how the relationships develop. Showing older women having relationships, a healthy sex life etc. So refreshing I've just watched an episode where they tell their ex-husbands and adult children that they're fed up of being taken for granted/patronised/managed and are going to go into business together to make vibrators for older women with arthritis. Challenging stereotypes ahoy

My only question is why are there not more tv shows like this, centring mature women living their lives.

Anyway, highly recommend it for something to watch that you don't have to switch off your everyday sexism radar to enjoy

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BigDeskBob · 12/04/2017 23:15

You're right it's a brilliant show and it's so refreshing to have two older women at the centre of it.

I liked how it showed how devastated they were at the breakdown of their marriages, while keeping it funny.

And I loved the relationships - particularly Frankie and Brianna's. All the women were well written and acted.

Its a pity its not on a regular TV channel for a bigger audience.

ISaySteadyOn · 13/04/2017 07:07

I think it's brilliant too. And Phoenix, series 3 is great as well.

EllaHen · 13/04/2017 07:23

I love it. Had a thread over on Telly Addicts. There's a few of us.

Proper laugh out loud funny that has me giggling for days remembering one-liners.

Jane Fonda is a comedy genius!

SaskiaRembrandtWasFramed · 13/04/2017 07:24

I love this too. Agree that it's a shame there aren't more series like it.

silkpyjamasallday · 13/04/2017 08:39

I am utterly in love with Grace and Frankie, binge watched all of the new season bf dd on the sofa in a day haha. I wish there were more tv shows like it with women at the centre that are fully rounded characters with depth showing women in a positive light.

Msqueen33 · 13/04/2017 08:42

I loved this show and rank it up there as one of my favourites. Such a shame to only have three series'. Brilliant'

BigDeskBob · 13/04/2017 10:24

They are making another series, but it won't be out till next year. I've just googled and Lisa kudrow is going to be in it.

Msqueen33 · 13/04/2017 10:31

Oh my god seriously?! Oh@bigdeskbob you've made my day!

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PhoenixJasmine · 13/04/2017 11:43

Lisa Kudrow will be a fab fit another great actor who isn't afraid to appear her age.

Are there any other similar feminist-friendly shows people can think of? Sometimes watching stuff can be really tiresome once you notice the 'unconscious' sex bias, tired gender stereotypes and Bechdel failure. Once you see it you can't unsee it and just enjoy stuff in blissful ignorance!

I'll look up the telly addicts thread thanks Ella

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ISaySteadyOn · 13/04/2017 18:36

Well, I am not sure it is feminist but I love Orphan Black.

LRDtheFeministDragon · 13/04/2017 20:58

I love Grace and Frankie.

Though, I know that they initially wanted to pay Martin Sheen and Sam Waterhouse more than the women. And that annoys me.

I do like, though, that they really show how even likeable men dealing with a really difficult personal situation, can be selfish and cruel - and their wives struggle with it.

BigDeskBob · 15/04/2017 19:33

I'm disappointed to hear that they want to pay the men more. They are only on screen a fraction of the time lily and Jane are. And although I think matin sheen is particularly good, they didn't need to cast those roles with big names. Jane and Lily are easily capable of carrying the programme themselves.

Msqueen33 · 15/04/2017 19:56

That is hugely disappointing. Although I like the guys I would be happier with lesser names as for me it's about Jane and Lily.

flamencina · 16/04/2017 00:59

The men getting more, despite being on screen less and not being the titular characters is preposterous. How did it not come to be - did the women fight against it or did the men speak up?

For recommendations for other series - Good Girls Revolt on Amazon was good. It's about women working in a newsroom in the 60s fighting for the right to be credited as reporters rather than nameless researchers.

SeaWitchly · 18/04/2017 07:12

I also love this show for all the reasons meantioned above.
It is so rare to see a comedy carried by two mature women and speaking to female issues and anxieties, not just being a conduit for male ones.

My only criticisms are that it is a bit 'beautiful people suffering beautifully in beautiful surroundings' aka first world problems on steroids. Sometimes I find myself thinking 'oh quit your naval gazing belly aching, you are generally healthy and wealthy people who have made it to your 70s and are still having relationships and good sex and have children whp love you and keep in frequent contact... and when you do get sad you have a beautiful view of the sea in a house which must be worth millions!'

But otherwise I love it!

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PhoenixJasmine · 18/04/2017 07:31

Well, yes SeaWitch, there is that! But then, it shows that none of us are immune to emotional pain, relationship breakdowns, health issues etc no matter how much money or how nice our house is.

I would really love to do a house swap with them for a holiday. Not sure they'd be so interested though perhaps Frankie would be open to air b&b....

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SeaWitchly · 18/04/2017 10:04

My other [smallish] criticism is how Grace is continually lauded as a beauty with men practically falling at her feet... and she is lovely to look at but it is also the stereotyped hollywood style vision of a beautiful older woman with her hyper thin figure, plastic surgeried face and boobs and immaculate designer wardrobe.
I know her character was meant to have originally been the trophy wife and would have gotten great satisfaction and approval for looking and behaving the way she did... and of course there are wealthy women everywhere who aspire to this form of patriarchy approved feminity. I also know that Frankie even refers to her as a barbie doll which is acknowledging the issue somewhat in a humorous way... however it still feels that she is held up as an icon and inspiration for the 70 year old woman who can still have it all!
Even Frankie, although generally more 'normal' in appearance is relatively thin [compared to real life] and looks a little botoxed/face lifted [if not so much as Jane Fonda].

* [SPOILER ALERT] There was a minor female character who portrayed a 70 year old woman with facial lines, grey hair and a fuller figure but she was killed off and only lasted two episodes! *

As I said earlier, in the main I love this show and can't wait for the next season to start. But once you start noticing these somewhat sterilised and patriarchy sanctioned characterisations and their fantasy lives you can't quite switch off from it [or at least I can't]. But this is the reality of US TV and what sells, if they ever did a British version I could imagine it would be a bit more gritty and true to life... but then might not be as popular or 'mainstream' so who knows.

SeaWitchly · 18/04/2017 10:31

Apologies for the highlighted spoiler alert, that wasn't meant to happen!

makeourfuture · 18/04/2017 10:38

My favourite Jane Fonda moment:

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