"We spoke to girls who don't identify as feminists..."

[Wondermoomin]

Ugh. This was shared by a friend (acquaintance really, but sort of "family") on Facebook. Not in circumstances that I can question it unfortunately. A couple of the girls make one or two valid points but most of this is just... ugh.

People who have reaped the benefits but see no need to keep momentum, people pulling the ladder up after them, people who just plain old have the "facts" wrong...

Thoughts?

http://thetab.com/2016/05/20/spoke-girls-dont-identify-feminists-asked-91109?utmsource=oldgold&utmmmedium=babe&utmcampaign=tabpages

The more people criticise feminism the more the need for feminism.

“I think modern day feminism is defined by silly things that are actually in our genetics and do make us different to being a male. I think lots of girls try to be too much like a man to support it but then still expect men to look after them, by opening doors, paying for dates, asking them to marry them, stuff like that. The movement is quite annoying to me at the moment as I think a lot of people who do it do it for the wrong reasons, like because it’s fashionable.

No, no, seriously, this is a parody article, right? I can't....................................................................

What are the "wrong reasons" for being a feminist, I wonder? Certainly not because it's "fashionable". When has it ever been fashionable? It's probably the most maligned civil rights movement in history.

Unfortunately I know several women who think similar things. It's baffling.

I don't agree with all feminist movements, but I will be a feminist until I take my last breath on this Earth.

Another recent one...

A typical "meme" on Facebook on International Women's Day. Accompanied by many hashtags, one of which was #notfeminism. Now this was someone I'm close to and I thought they must have made a typo so I just commented "Why not feminism?" Next thing I know I'm receiving angry private messages about how she's "not part of that brigade" and my simple question has been deleted presumably so as not to mess up her Facebook timeline

I find it bizarre. Disparaging feminism but claiming to be supportive of women's rights and independence It just doesn't add up.

I know of girls who wouldn't say they were anti-feminist but wouldn't say they were feminists either, but also claim to be supportive of women's rights and independence. With the ones I know of I think they're under the (in my opinion) false impression the battles are won, being relatively privileged compared to other girls and women, feeling they have full equality. What's frustrating is they don't seem to question issues they do face even now such as street harassment (most girls I know do, just some of those who'd say they weren't feminists) or victim blaming rape culture and advice.

The idea it's "fashionable" is ridiculous (even "fun"/"libfems" get misogynist attacks on social media etc). I do though hope one day there's no need for feminism.

YY to the false impression that the battles are won - just look at Trump undoing women's progress at the stroke of a pen.

Indeed. There are so many issues still faced it is frustrating some don't see it. In a way I'm glad if some women feel they don't face misogyny but on the other hand if they use that position to shout down or deride other women who see it, it's pretty irritating. It's also quite a selfish position to take in my opinion, sort of 'I feel everything's fine for me so all women should agree'.

Urgh.

The short sightedness of the comments from these women infuriates me.

You can still be a feminist and be aware of your own privileges. But, come on, see past the end of your nose. Just because it doesn't affect you doesn't mean that it affects no one.

"It’s 2016 and it’s perfectly possible for women to get good careers. The problem with why women aren’t gaining equality is because a lot of them self-objectify themselves and still make their main objective to gain the approval of men. That’s whats holding us back as women, not just men. We have to show that we are strong ourselves.”

Why is this the case? Perhaps because, at every turn, it's drilled in to us that we must be attractive to men to have any sense of worth, that we must be a certain dress size and wear make up to be viewed a certain way. That we must act a certain way at work to avoid rocking the boat or coming across as 'bitchy' rather than 'assertive.' Is that not exactly why we need feminism?

Without feminism, these girls would be much less likely to be allowed to give their opinion about anything, and even if they could say what they think, nobody would care.

Without feminism they wouldn't be able to vote or have the chance to have a university education or a well paid job or the right not to get sacked for getting married or pregnant or the right to credit without their husband's signature or the right for that husband not to rape them. Or just to walk down the fucking street really. But who needs feminism?

people pulling the ladder up after them

Thank you, that illustrates very nicely what non-feminist women do. Profit from the fact that someone gave them a ladder, and doing everything in their power so that other women won't have the same advantage. Selfish assholes.

"The problem with why women aren’t gaining equality is because a lot of them self-objectify themselves and still make their main objective to gain the approval of men."

But somehow, if women choosey choice to make the approval of men their main objective, then that is feminism and we nasty radfems ought not to criticise it?

Are there actually two distinct groups (unfeminist women and libfems) or are they the same? Because I somehow get the feeling they're both coming from the same place, despite the contradictory statements.

I think for younger women and girls particularly, the feminism the majority will have knowledge of is of the Everyday Feminism variety. In which case, I can't blame them for not identifying with it.

I didn't really know anything about feminism until I was in my early twenties. If you'd asked me if I was a feminist before then, I don't know what I would have said.

could we maybe sue Everyday Feminism, for defamation?

Trades Descriptions Act?

I think for younger women and girls particularly, the feminism the majority will have knowledge of is of the Everyday Feminism variety. In which case, I can't blame them for not identifying with it.

Fair enough. I hadn't thought of that as the only feminist magazine in my country has an anti-prostitution stance and will probably (I hope) speak out against males being allowed to identify their way into women's spaces.

I guess one really cannot blame British and US girls for not wanting anything to do with Everyday Feminism.
The idea of sueing that site for defamation appeals.