Finsbury Park murder (warning: distressing child death). THIS IS MALE VIOLENCE. Why is it not being named?

[BertieBotts]

I'm so upset after reading the reports about this tonight. I won't link because it really is that awful, (they were just little babies :() but suffice to say, yet another attack on women and children, named as "domestic". Oh don't worry everyone, he wasn't a psycho or anything, it's just domestic! It's just fucking endemic, you mean. Because it's not like domestic magically means that each incident is isolated, except wait, no, that's literally how it is treated. ALL THE TIME.

Why is it only ever women's organisations who seem to care about these patterns? Why do we continue to glamourise control and emotional abuse in our media depictions of relationships when it's just the thin end of the wedge which ends in men killing women or men killing women's children in order to punish the woman? (Arguably worse). Why do we promote ultra-violent, misogynistic porn as something normal? Why do we laugh off male aggression?

Do we not get it? Do we not see the patterns? Because I see them ALL THE TIME and I don't know what to do about it, it really makes me despair.

That's an interesting link whatsthe, the NSPCC file has a lot of useful data. There seems to be lots of data about the victims there but not anything about the perpetrators. I wonder if anyone has done any research into the prevalence of family annihilation.

"Given that 2 women a week are murdered by current or ex partners, we could keep this thread going forever. sadangry"

Prawn, there's a long running thread noting victims. I will link.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/feminist_activism/1065291-Victims-of-Violence

Could do with updating.

And do you think a thread about domestic violence is a good place for your prejudices ?

Oh cadno. You never change. More's the pity.

I think a feminist thread on a feminist message board is an excellent place to discuss a feminist analysis of male violence.

I've no idea what prejudices you're talking about.

I agree, pooch. Show some fucking respect if you have any humanity in you.

I agree, OP. I despair as well. The problem is so sinister and so overwhelming. And there are so many women with internalised misogyny as they have been socialised to victim blame. I certainly was socialised this way.

No victim blaming here.

I've no idea what prejudices you're talking about

Quite.

Naff off, trollface32

Has somebody pushed the MRA alert? How tedious.

Yawn. Do try to get a life.

You won't get a rise out of me, cadno.

Your inability to present a decent argument for your opinion, the fact that you can only express your obvious anger towards women through snide little asides and your incessant need to scold feminists just make me feel a bit sorry for you, tbh. It can't be much of a life.

AssassinatedBeauty I think Jane Monckton-Smith will have researched the area of family annihilation as part of her work on domestic violence, coercive control and gender, though I don't know if it has included prevalence.

PS Id be happy to, at the moment I'm journeying home but will revert to you.

Looking back through the thread there are many questions raised - is there a particular on which you wish to focus ?

Thanks Fairy, I found an article where it mentions that she says the rates are increasing recently.

I find the attitude to these crimes very strange, as if it's somehow inevitable that these sorts of things will happen in relationships, and no one ever says "hang on, this is madness" and looks at the causes of this kind of extreme violence within the family.

Assassinated, yes you are so right that crimes like this within families get treated as somewhat inevitable which is TOTAL BULLSHIT and so offensive

I agree with so many points on this thread - thank you all.

Another thing I've noticed about these attacks is that there's always a narrative of a desperate man pushed to breaking point - as though it was somehow explicable that the poor love was having a hard time and therefore of course he would attack his baby with a hammer. That this is causibly traceable, and a pattern - that this male response is an accepted path.

This case is horrific - all of these cases are horrific. The last moments of that poor baby's life where he was plunged into unspeakable terror and pain, this should not be normalised by talking about how violent acts are a response to stress or upset or whatever.

I'd have thought it was more like narcissistic rage rather than being pushed to some kind of breaking point. You're right that this whole kind of idea of being driven to it is so wrong. It's triggered by normal events, like a relationship break up, not extreme stress.

Where do people see that it is expected? Every occasion of family anihilation I remember as being treated with horror and utter condemnation of the perpetrator in being so selfish to hurt their children no matter what the circumstances.

almost every story of male family anihilator has components of 'known to have a temper'

It's triggered by normal events, like a relationship break up, not extreme stress.

But relationship breakups happen every day in this country in their hundreds or maybe thousands. Yet these murders are relatively rare compared to the general population. So, its begs the question as to whether or not there are other common factors involved other than a man and women splitting up. There needs to be proper investigations carried out with no avenue of investigation off the cards, no questions forbidden - for a better understanding of such crimes, and hopefully their prevention

Family annihilator was the first thought I had when I heard this on the news a few days ago.

It's so tragic how common something so awful seems to be these days.

There needs to be proper investigations carried out with no avenue of investigation off the cards, no questions forbidden

I agree with that.
but the pattern is sadly all too familiar.

It will be the subject of a serious case review (SCR). These take place whenever a child dies as the result of either abuse or neglect.
The idea is that lessons can be learnt to try and prevent future occurrences as here from the NSPCC