Man walks free from court after statutory rape

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Saw this news case today, and am not sure what I think:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

I feel that it gives the message that it's ok for men not to worry about the age of girls/women they have sex with if they have reasonable grounds to believe they're 16+.

Attitudes HAVE to change.

It seems uk society has learned NOTHING from

Savile
Rolf Harris
Max Clifford
Gary glitter
Cyril smith
Stuart hall
Jonathan King
Ian Watkins
Adam Johnson
Rotherham
Sheffield incest
Etc etc

It's quite clear that if you are buying alcohol whilst under 30, you will be asked for ID if you're deemed to look younger.

When it comes to sex and consent, if you 'pass' for looking older, then it's fair game.

Are shopkeepers specifically trained in guessing the age of people? Are they blessed with special powers? Perhaps they should train the police.

Any 18 and 19 year old going out will bring ID with them to prove their age. I did and that was decades ago (provisional driving licence).

So I presume that the 19 year old did have ID on him.

How did this get to court anyway?

You're playing a very risky game to sleep with someone you just met at a taxi rank who claims to be 16. I can't say I feel too awful for him, I'm sure he will move on from this and hopefully learn and I'd rather it acted as a deterrent for young men rather than a get out clause.

It's quite clear that if you are buying alcohol whilst under 30, you will be asked for ID if you're deemed to look younger.

Which, presumably she did. Fake ID. Which the 19-year-old must have known about (as she had been drinking). He knew she had already convinced someone she was 18, at least, despite her telling him she wasn't.

She told him she was just of age. He knew she had form for lying. If that's not a good enough reason to abstain, I don't know what it is.

I wonder how many of you that say he should have made SURE she was not lying about her age, have asked to see identification of every guy you've slept with.

Passport or driving licence, or no sex, even if they blatantly look old enough. Unless you've insisted on this every time, then you've made the same decision he made, and really can't criticise.

Girls are taught to be independent, strong women who have a right to do what they want with their bodies from a young age. This girl made a choice but apparently now it's the man in this situation's fault that she made the wrong choice.

But she was not a woman. She was a child,a 12 yo old CHILD. And as such she cannot make such a choice or be responsible for said choice.

The offence he was convicted of says penetration can be intentional or reckless.

Blueskyrain

He didn't have to make sure she was lying about her age. He already knew she had done it once that very night.

God, utterly frustrating and sad.

How does it matter how old she looked ffs. She was 12. The whole point of the fucking law on this is so we don't get into discussing how old a child looks.

Save all the bullshit debate around rape for discussions about adults at least - fuck me, that's bad enough. But come on, surely we still want to protect our children.

If you believe that 12 year olds can look 16 then you should be desperate for a law that doesn't excuse based on how old our children look or how they behave but instead 100% protects them as the child in the situation.

I find it vile enough that adult men look at me sexually, comments and so forth are horrendous, let alone a 12 year old girl. As I said earlier in the thread, drunk or not, how on Earth could an adult have even the briefest conversation with a 12 year old and not find their youth obvious? The difference in conversation with even the most "mature" of 12 year olds and a 16 year old is obvious. As for the poster who said "if you look at the Instagrams of some of my son's year they could pass for 16", oh dear is the most polite term I can find.

I wonder how many of you that say he should have made SURE she was not lying about her age, have asked to see identification of every guy you've slept with.

Again, I think the important point is that when you choose to have sex with a drunk random you pick up at a taxi rank you are leaving yourself open to all sorts of risks. The person may be underage, or have an STI, or be married, or be a serial killer.

I'm not suggesting that there is a possible mechanism for checking for e.g. age, but that if you engage in casual sex you should be aware of and accept these risks. This individual raped the girl, not because she looked older, or was out at 4am, but because he didn't know her. He could just have well caught say herpes, which he would also have to deal with. In the event it was rape, which he should also have to deal with.

If you choose to have sex with an unknown, you shouldn't be able to use the unknown aspect as a mitigating factor, as you know there are many unknowns.

Actually, I have been in a similar situation. I was early twenties, out clubbing, I'd had a few drinks. I snogged a young guy, as I was wont to do in those days- he was at least 6'4", fairly well built, he was also drunk, and in a club. Mid snog, as a light passed over his face I realised with horror that he was a LOT younger than he initially presented as being. I asked him. He admitted he was 16, with a big cheesy grin, "but you don't mind, do you?"

Did I have sex with him? Of course I didn't! I (metaphorically) smacked his arse and sent him home to his mum, because as a grown woman, I was appalled at the prospect of sexual contact with someone who was sitting his GCSEs. Women aren't encouraged to feel that they're entitled to have sex with young boys. Why is it that men are?

Thank you Elendon and Hedgehog!

"Oh dear is the most polite term I can find"

Amy you are brilliant!

This girl made a choice but apparently now it's the man in this situation's fault that she made the wrong choice.

So now 12 year olds are able to make free choices and consent to sex with adults? Why have any laws at all on an age of consent then? Clue is also in "girl" and "man".

Thank you very much RJ!

Pooch I did something really similar. 19, at a club that was normally a popular student place. Was with a friend and found ourselves getting loads of male attention. I kissed a guy on the dance floor. Soon after we started thinking the boys seemed a bit young. Then my friend clicked it had been GCSE results day! Loads of 16yo kids out celebrating. I was horrified about the kiss, we chatted with the lads about their results then took ourselves home early.

Happy birthday IAmAmy. You're the little bit of light on this thread.

Pooch Not all men (I know, sorry). I was a 17 year old in a club. I was allowed in on the premise that I didn't buy any alcoholic drinks (I knew the owner). I was sneaked a drink by my 18 year old girl friend - it was her birthday. I was dancing with some older man (he was about 22, guess) and it was great fun. I quite fancied him. He went off with his mates after. One of them came to me later and said that they had advised him not to continue as I was too young. They were Army and this was Northern Ireland during the troubles.

Too kind Yoshimihere and thank you (it's tomorrow but I'm counting today )! I feel able to post because of all the fantastic, supportive women on this board who fight misogyny and battle victim blaming on threads like these.

Elendon very much so. Victim blamers in cases like this actually do men a disservice, saying they're all such basic and predatory beings that they'll go for any girl they have some vague belief is 16. Many men would be horrified by this case.

how on Earth could an adult have even the briefest conversation with a 12 year old and not find their youth obvious?

This. With bells on.

Amy you are showing more insight and sheer thinking ability than the child abuse apologists on this thread. Happy birthday for tomorrow.

Thank you very much for your kind words and wishes AnyFucker!

And I expect some of them are 2 or 3 times your age. Shame on them.