Man walks free from court after statutory rape

[AssassinatedBeauty]

Saw this news case today, and am not sure what I think:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-39305042

I feel that it gives the message that it's ok for men not to worry about the age of girls/women they have sex with if they have reasonable grounds to believe they're 16+.

'He has been convicted but not given a sentence so (presumably) that's on his record'

According to Google:

If an offender gets an absolute discharge, a finding of guilt is made but no conviction is registered.

I agree with the judge in this case.

I'd like the parents to be held to account. Why was their 12 year old out all night?

the police had no concerns about her age either. Nor the taxi driver who thought she was 20. He admitted it and burst into tears.

I do think this is one of those hard cases make bad law scenarios.

The girl clearly has been failed and needs a lot of help and support which I hope she is now getting.

Apparently the conviction WILL register if he goes for a CBR check.

From a legal point of view I don't see what other alternative there could be.

I find the idea of meeting someone in a taxi queue at 4am and immediately taking them to a party and having sex with them fairly unpleasant in any circumstances though, so I still think he is an arse of the highest order.

And yes to the girl having been failed by people who should have been looking after her welfare.

My 12 year old dd looks older than 12 shes5ft 5 talker than me and curvy so can see how she could have been mistaken for older. Like others have said why was a twelve year old out she has been massivley let down.

A 12 and 13 yo out alone at 4 am. I'm sure they met pleanty of people. They were even met by police who had no concerns over their ages,and they are trained professionals. The guy did not plead not guilty. He accepted what he did. The judge decided not to sentence him.
I don't know any people male or female that ask for ID in one night stands. Even if they did it's easy to say I don't have one or whatever.

Agree this young girl has really been let down

I'm guessing she is in care if this girl was from a nice family he would have absolutely been given a sentence

But girls who are in the care system or families are under social services are seen as trouble and not as worthy

Stealth some, in fact a lot, of the girls in my son's year (age 12/13) at school have breasts, hips, full on curves, they are young women who would easily pass for 16. She wasn't claiming to be mid-20's.

Cover up can she also converse like a 16 year old?

Stealth my daughters friend at 13 definitely talked and acted like she was a lot older. She was very grown up in her whole attitude and was hanging around with a much older crowd. I'd never ever have taken her for 13 out of her school uniform.

When I was 13 I was very much older looking - I had (unfortunately) big breasts, curvy hips etc. It was misery for me. But at the same time I loved that people frequently thought I was over 18, it was a source of great excitement. I was also well read and very precocious, having sneaked the opportunity to read a lot of stuff that was frankly unsuitable. I probably could have passed for being older than 16 in conversation.

If I came from the sort of background where I could have found myself unsupervised at 4am with someone who was paying attention to me, I would have been so flattered and I could well imagine having ended up in a similar situation. As it is, I did have encounters that I now look back on and realise were dangerous situations to be in, and it was only sheer luck that saw me come out the other side unharmed.

My opinion is that adults should be having sex with due care and attention. If hey take risks (such as having sex with someone they barely know), fine, but there are consequences.
Life isn't fair. No one cares until it affects men.

By 4am, I guess everyone sounds a bit random.

There was CCTV if her in the night by the way. The judge viewed it as part of her deliberations on whether the girl appeared of age. So that's police hunting for a missing 12 year old (who spoke to her, and so she was both looking and conversing in a way that the police meant they had no concerns about her age), a taxi driver and a judge all thinking that she looked of age.

Why the hell are a 12 and 13 year old out like that?

(I assume that the 13 yo might also have had sex that night, but that wouldn't be an offence at all, if the other party (like the defendant) was also a teenager)

That's a bit of a leap, stealth.

Fair enough. But if you drive without care and hit someone, you're in trouble.

So the message is that men don't have any expectations to check the age of girls they have sex with beyond what they look like and asking their age? They can assume that a verbal response of 16+ gives them the ok, as long as the girl looks older.

More from the judge here

www.scotland-judiciary.org.uk/8/1754/HMA-v-Daniel-Cieslak

Jut about any 12 year old can be made to look 16 with a bit of make up.

Even if she had been 16 she would still legally be a child and the police were not bothered by her being drunk at 3.30am and with a group that incl;uded the girl they were looking for.

Surely that's something they should have been concerned with, if they were looking for one child and found her with a group of people they believed were 16-19 and were drinking surely they should have had some concerns.

What worries me is that this could become a defence of sorts, I thought she was 16 - prove I didn't.

Pretty much. This rape was the girl's fault. Or her parents' fault. Or society's fault.

Never ever the person with the pens.

Flipping heck phone penis is a word.

And this man was in trouble. One way or another he has a rape charge on his record.

There are driving incidents where people get discharges and /or low sentences too.

^^Cover up can she also converse like a 16 year old?

My dd is very young socially compared to how she looks. She is bright and inteligent but also has that childishness about her. You would definetly know she was a child by talking to her.

Yes ok I do take that point and the one Madonna made earlier. I don't actually have to much problem with the lack of conviction (not ideal ). It's more the "what can you do" attitude and the shifting of the blame onto lolita and her neglectful parents.

It is not just how old you look and sound, it's also about context. If it is in town in the middle of the night, or in a nightclub or bar, then I think it's normal to assume that the young women around you are over 16.

Who was supposed to be responsible for this child ? Where the hell were they?

I also think picking up people for casual sex is bleuch but apparently no one thinks like this any more.