Until we organise as well as the transactivists we're not going to stem the problem

[dorade]

Everyone, regardless of race, creed or sex is entitles to the same human rights.

I have three issues with much of the current trans ideology:

1. The erosion of women's spaces, sports, achievements and quotas by biological males who wish to identify as females.

1. The transing (and therefore subjection to lifelong medical treatments, invasive surgery and potential sterilisation) of children for failure to comply with societally-imposed gender norms.

1. The erasure of lesbians, either by transing of potentially lesbian girls or by transwomen claiming to be lesbians.

The trans lobby is vocal and well funded. They have found an enormously soft target in schools/government/social care, all of whom unsurprisingly associate transgender with gay and lesbian issues and don't want to repeat the bigotry that gay and lesbian people were (and are) subjected to. Identity is not the same as sexual orientation. A person's sexual orientation treads on no-one else's rights. The same cannot be said for gender identity.

When articles, such as the recent transgender rapist one, appear in the press, the vast majority of comments show that the public is not fooled. Yet people keep quiet so as not to appear bigoted, thus allowing the movement to steamroller on at the expense of women and children.

I believe that the main target for opposition should be in our schools. Organisations such as Gires and Gendered Intelligence distribute material that promotes ideas such as pink and blue brains and that any child can choose whether to be a girl or a boy to impressionable children, backed up by teachers. Opposition to this is needed and it is not happening in any concerted way. I think a backlash has every chance of succeeding as there is huge latent support for it.

The average person in the street knows little to nothing of trans issues, but is likely to believe that a transwoman will have had his penis removed. The fact that in 2 weeks' time the Government is going to be debating replacing sex with gender identity as a protected characteristic is way off the radar of 99% of the population.

Mumsnet is brilliant in debating these issues, but we need to take it to the next level.

I had a good look at the Women In Sport charity's website yesterday to see if they had any statement with regards to trans women competing alongside women - they didn't. Do you think it's a good idea to contact them and ask? I know it is only one facet of the issue, and I suspect they want to remain impartial, but gotta start somewhere I guess.

Right I've just bought a ticket to an event with Jess Phillips for weds 29th in central London. Shall I ask her to define what a woman is? Does anyone want to come with me?

Unisex is fine surely - for use by anyone of any biological sex, including intersex. Using the word gender is the problem.

Yes unisex, or male/female.

I haven't RTFT, but I saw requests upthread for a template letter. I have already written to my MP. Anybody who would like to is welcome to take a look at what I said. My letter is not brilliant, it was written in a hurry, but it least it gives you a start.

I'll post it on the thread if you'd like me to.

Should have said for use by any human being, regardless of chromosones, genetalia etc.

I'm slightly concerned about the use of unisex and/or gender neutral.

Unisex as the connotation that any one of either sex can use it. Gender neutral has the connotation of anyone who thinks they're a special bloody snowflake - which I quite like because of course gender is bollocks and this shows it up.

However, I would only want either of those two options if they were an addition, not a replacement for women's spaces.

Yes - we need to be clear about the distinction between the terms 'sex' and 'gender' - one is a biological reality upon which structural inequality is based and gender is a recent (1950s) sociological term for 'sex role stereotypes/norms'.
I think it's important that we are seen as defending 'our sex' rather than getting too tied up in 'gender' discussions ....

cuppa I'm the same with anxiety I'm in the north west if that's near you?

Weirdly my anger over this is overriding my anxiety.

MeMyself1.

I'm happy to go with unisex, to emphasise sex over gender, if it is explicitly understood that it is not a replacement, but an addition. Otherwise it's just the same as letting everyone in.

Yes please LumelaMme - please post.

Afraid not Thisisouting - I'm in the East, shame :(

Oh yes agree as an addition

General neutral effectively identifies people as that, where as unisex is further anyone (and females would most definately use also, females ques too long!)

They would need to be safer/more private/individual cubicles. But would be helpful first other scenarios also, a dad who doesn't want to take his 7 year old daughter into the males to see other mens penis' etc. And (I know not to bring them into the actual debate) but surely this suits the small percentage who are intersex. Or even just anyone with digestuve medical cobditions who isn't comfortable using disabled toilets etc

And I know what you mean about the anger overriding the anxiety - I am almost there, but am terrified of undoing all the hard work that I (and therapists/family etc.) have done.

Thanks BevGoldbergsSister I'll take a look.

Wow - what a lot of progress.
Like others, I'm especially bothered by the CPS pack for the schools - the Crown Prosecution Service fgs!
Maybe the TES (Time Education Supplement) would like to take a look and comment on the silencing of girls.
I did idly wonder whether the CPS are going to produce guidelines for pregnant persons women, hospital patients, those who have been sexually assaulted to explain how asking to be seen by a HCP of the same sex or to be treated on a single sex ward is transphobic / a hate crime?

Would this work for other female spaces?

Pressumabley if there's a small unisex ward in a mh hospitals then anyone trans can use it. And then hcp can carefully choose non threatening males or females who are less vulnerable/don't have a history of sa to use the other beds? (Because we know all beds are needed)

Prisions could work the same. And in the US they sometimes do, with mtt being housed with elderly males in a wing for those vulnerable to the violent male population. Although ofcourse it is the mtt who are the rapists sometimes...

Refuges, if they have demand, could create smaller safe spaces for non female victims. And males are victims at times as well as transfolk.

Obviously all of this needs money, but is it feasible from the above or what have I not thought of?

Children should just be left well alone. Vaginas one bog, penis' the other. And actively, agressively start teaching them that gender is meaningless and that boys must be respectful and tolerate to all boys. Including those who prefer dresses and long hair.

Just place marking - will read through later.

Fine with twitter

Fine by me Bev. The more people read about this, the better they can deal with the attempts to shut them down.

I'm massively encouraged over people realising what is going on. That Jenni Murray article has stirred a sleeping beast.

Can we see her posts? I'd be interested what she is using them for and what the responses are.

IN what she's using them for