My daughter is ten and presenting as every anxious girl on the planet

[humourless]

Four girls in my daughters class have anxiety stomach aches, I've read that these girls are ripe for being school refusers at secondary school. In year five they still change with the boys for PE and do PE with the boys... which I think is shit.
Some of the shit my daughter has dealt with recently.
Not being invited to parties, she's not the only one
Being sat at a table where one girl invites everyone to her house except my DD
A troubled girl befriending her and telling everyone my dd has ever said
A girl in her class having lists about who is nice and who isn't (my daughter wasn't on either list)
Her good friend being told not to talk to her (a very weird toxic friendship the two that have pissed off have).

What is going on with girls? There's no solidarity, the school are impotent to this social exclusion style bullying.

My dd is tall and beautiful, painfully shy, hates sports (which I think could be brilliant for her) trying really hard not to be shy and puts herself out there to push herself, bright but slipping rapidly at school due to the social side of stuff (I know I sound a dick for saying that but she is striking and gets a lot of attention from adults for it which she absolutely loathes).

I guess I don't want to focus on my dd, but the wider issue of girls that begin to really suffer at school from puberty onwards and what schools and society can do about it.

DD2 has actually had male teachers comment on her appearance which is so far out of order... I could actually see her soul curl up and die a little when she was telling me about it. And DD2 would never play the charming little girly to males either.

Christ, my typos are endless. Apologies

I remember all of these issues from my childhood. I now teach in a girls' school and I can assure you that these issues are ever present. I wish I had the answers. What is good is that our school does take social exclusion bullying and friendship issues very seriously. Unlike when I was at school when they weren't interested.

Oh good, glad I wasn't out of line for suggesting ASD might be a thought. One thing that helped me (standard friendship issues) and helped others with other problems, was keeping up an alternative social life out of school. Some kind of art class or cadets or drama or orchestra or just a group of kids you know who aren't from school. Having people you can go and spend time with who aren't those bastards from school felt like a lifesaver at times.

Also maybe reassure her that you don't need to be friends with everyone. Having one friend who's a good friend can be a huge security blanket against this kind of shit. Is there anyone else who seems nice and maybe a bit quiet?

The stomach aches are definitely anxiety, I know the mothers.

Anxiety induced stomach aches does sound like classic IBS - see this NHS website page for further information

www.nhs.uk/conditions/Irritable-bowel-syndrome/Pages/Introduction.aspx

I remember when dd (15) was 11 and still changing with the boys. Poor kid hit puberty at 10 and ended up in tears every single time. It's absolutely shit.

See even 40 years ago we did not have to change with the boys at 11. It's really not on at all.

So the story ever unfolds. My dd was suffocating her new friend who is a social butterfly and doesn't want a close friendship but lots of friendships, so she's shut down. DD does have one good friend, however. But unlike most girls her age DD doesn't do make up or dress like a teenager, she is the only one not to wear heels/crop tops/make up to the school disco.
Because I've kicked quite a stink all girls are being talked to one to one to find to how they enjoy school.

DD has started guides and loves it. (thank goodness)

I have also mad a box for her and i to talk about troubles and post them, she does get quite fixed on stuff and is very negative.

I think her issues are real but she doesn't help iyswim.

I'm glad to see the school stepping up a bit, unfortunately girls can be bloomin' vile to each other but a lot of this behaviour shouldn't be tolerated. For instance I think at this stage parties do get smaller but talking about it openly should be frowned upon, and especially making lists of who someone likes and doesn't like. We've had a lot of issues and fallings out between the girls in my dd's class and the teacher is doing a lot of work on what healthy friendships and healthy playing should mean. I think there are still some problems but at least it shows the girls that poor behaviour is frowned upon and words or excluding someone can really hurt.

Definitely from the boys then grabbing their crotches or any kind of dick talk should be stamped on right away.

Also sad to hear about the girls' sexualised dressing, gosh, they seem so young to have any interest in that. My little one, just turned 9, still just wants to poke mud with a stick and even some of the more sophisticated girls are only interested in clothes for their own sake, certainly not to show off their bodies or appear more grown-up.

It's great she's made friends at Guides, sure she will find more of a tribe of like-minded mates at secondary but try to help her not take others' bitchy behaviour to heart too much, they are all just learning to be women and are going to make a lot of mistakes along the way.

Play time is a big thing, what do girls do a break?

Not sports or chase by the time they're in year five. My daughter was taking in top trumps but was told they weren't allowed as boys had had issues with Pokemon swaps....

The only thing there is to do is walk around and talk, usually about other people as what else can they talk about?

In better schools they have clubs.

humourless I think you gave a school culture problem rather than a daughter problem. My DS is in year 6 and the girls certainly don't wear make up and teenage style clothes to the school disco. They seem to play games too at break time; skipping, juggling, practising dances. Occasionally a couple of them play football with the boys (much to DS's disgust).

Hmm, my dd is only in year 4 but there still seems to be plenty of play. They still play chase, hide and seek, they make up fantasy games, either stuff out of their own heads or inspired by films and tv such as Star Wars, they set up little shops using stuff they find in the playground or leaves from the trees. I think this does go up to year 6, I think my little one is quite young in her outlook but certainly lots of them play these games. Some children also go over to help in the infant playground and there is also a 'quiet room' where children who don't like the frantic playground atmosphere can colour or read.

I'd agree with the pp who queried the school's culture, it seems concerning that the other girls seem to be racing to leave their childhoods behind, turning their backs on 'play' and embracing adult dressing.

TBF my DD doesn't play, she hasn't for a while. This, I think, is to do with her body development and not wanting to run.... she's very distressed by puberty.

But I want to see alternatives at break time and maybe lunchtime clubs.

To update.

Today my dd was crying all morning and so I agreed to let her stay off. Then had a chat with the, lovely, deputy head who asked me to bring her in. He's put some amazing things in place for her. As soon as you mention school refuser they really do get into action.

So glad there has been some good news for your dd. It is totally right that the school step up and address these issues, and well done for you for keeping on it!

If you are considering asd & your dd prefers only one friend & school refusal I'd be reading up on pda to see if it fits.

Also, regarding the social stuff, Carol gilligan and lynn mykail browns v old but v accurate book is allways worth reading. I have it somewhere although I can't recall the name, you will find it if you still those two names in Google or amazon.

I've been in for another meeting, even if my daughter is ASD she's not the only experiencing being ostracised and kids running away. Another little girl is being bullied for her friends for being fat... she's 9! What the fuck is happening to our girls?

My dd is even getting the "nice" girls running away in self preservation because they are worried about losing the other girls.

I'm fucked off with how this has been allowed to fester and grow.

Read the book I suggested, it looks at why this happens with girls socially at this age, how they 'loose voice' to save social networks etc

& schools often don't realise this us bullying, because it's more difficult to identify.

& it's 'has asd' if that's the case, offensive to suggest a person is a disability

Good school response can make a huge difference. My dd's school won't tolerate exclusion bullying, they have an anti-bullying programme, and when it got a bit out of hand in a friendship group, they all had to go in, say their side of the story, and then were given very clear rules- no exclusion, no 'clubs or groups' that exclude others and none named after one child (who then excludes others). Running away or leaving someone to play by themselves isn't allowed.

Sounds harsh, but now I think it turned the group around from quite spiteful/excluding ways to being more accepting and thinking about who is left out. It seems better in Year 6 than in Year 4, say.

Great she is going to Guides, I think having hobbies/clubs out of school is great and Guides is quite structured with adult leaders, so hopefully this will be fun for her.

It is a hard time, but just keep talking to your dd, in the car, out for the day, whenever you can (I wouldn't go in the bedroom and say 'would you like to talk' as this is too full on for them). Just keep the lines of communication open there so that home is a safe haven. Don't interrogate though as soon as she gets home.

Bullies, bigmouths and so-called friends is quite a good book, my dd2 enjoyed reading it, I don't know how much it influenced her but it all helps you see it isn't you alone that is in this situation.

I am sure there must be ONE nice girl in the class that your dd could be friends with?

Not all 10 year old girls are boy mad!

Please don't take this the wrong way but some of your posts sound as though you feel your dd is superior in some way to the other girls. If the others pick up on this she might be ostracised because of it. Just a thought.

Apologies if Im way off track

my dd is also being bullied at school by the boys so I know how isolating it can be.

I have actively encouraged fitting in with some other girls which seems to be helping.

She's not interested in pleasing them AT ALL

why not? does she not want to do well at school?

My daughter not so much. Until her male teachers she was adored, but probably not too noticed expect for her appearance.

I think you are putting WAY too much emphasis on your dds appearance and her relationship to the male teachers.

Wobbly...., I am looking for that book.

finagler.

I'm not implying that male teachers only notice my dd's appearance. Let me clarify. Female teachers liked the fact she was studious and quiet, the males want more interaction from her. It's more reciprocal with males, I find.

And pleasing a teacher is not the same as getting on at school for your own motivation and value. Some people are people pleasers, they show the teacher their work, draw attention to themselves.... I am one of them, but my daughter is not. I like that about her, she doesn't play the game. She shouldn't have to play the game in order to feel valued for her school work.

My daughter probably doesn't assimilate too well, she's very quiet. Why should she start saying make up is important to fit in???