Transphobic and Transcritical - what is the difference?

[OurBlanche]

It seems to be a recurrent theme. Women here talk about various trans issues and some find many of the posts to be transphobic

I don't see that, I see a lot of women taking the opportunity to have a discussion they can't have in m/any other places. I see a lot of transcritical posts, some stated calmly, some not so. But they don't evidence transphobic.

So, on another thread I asked if it would be useful to discuss the difference between the two words.

My take is that I am not transphobic, I do not fear or hate any/all transpeople. I couldn't really care how someone presents themselves, what nomenclature they prefer.

I am transcritical, because of the actions of a very vocal minority of transactivists. I will disagree with them and it will have nothing to do with their preferred way of dressing, being hailed!

"Transphobia" in anything other than some weird pomo alternative universe where words can mean whatever the speakers says they do, is an irrational fear or hatred of trans people.

Transphobia is what the men who kill trans people display. And that, no matter how many people want to to be, is not the fault of women who want to get rid of the concept of gender. I am willing to put good money on the fact that not a single killer of a trans person has been an avid reader of Dworkin or Greer.

Ironically, the phrase biologically born female would be seen and denounced as transphobic by the same people who say that being gender critical is transphobic.

Transphobia is manifest when men murder transwomen. At least that's the only thing that actually qualifies for such a serious accusation.

But the definition of what is transphobic in most places these days is saying absolutely anything that has been objected to by any transactivist ever. You can be the best ally you think you can be, but put one linguistic foot wrong and you'll get it in the neck. Being called a transphobe is far, far too easy.

I prefer gender critical too. I think the trans issue is a symptom of the pervading nature of gender, rather than something discrete. I accept that dysphoria is a real thing and that even if gender disappeared there may be people who suffer from a disconnect with their biological sex. However, I don't see that as the same as identifying as a gender because 1) gender is not a real thing so it's not possible to identify with an imaginary construct 2) it's damaging, it's saying that gender is real and there are standard behaviours for men and women, and 3) it's not consistent. TAs would now have us believe there are as many genders as there are human beings, which suggests it is about personality, not some innate aspect of being male or female.

Sorry, that should be identify as an imaginary construct not with

saskia
I agree that gender is imaginary, or made up. But they are identifying with a way of presenting themselves that (they hope) will produce results. To me, it's not so much about how they feel, it's how they want to be treated - it goes way beyond 'typically' damaging stereotypes.

Even yesterday I was reading another account of a transwoman who was banging on (to men) about how great sex would be with her because she would be 'compliant', 'enthusiastically accepting of anything and everything' and never refuse sex (as long as you didn't get hung up on the fact that she had a penis and not a vagina).

It was a wholly male view of the 'ideal woman'.

And, of course, I realise that that is not representative of many transwomen, but it is of a certain kind.

Gender stereotypes have always been very damaging to women, but these particular stereotypes are far worse.

So 'gender critical' is exactly the focus. I don't at all mind how someone presents themself, but I do mind if I have to treat them in a certain way because they think their that presentation warrants it.

It goes back to 'what did she expect? wearing a skirt like that?'

I agree. It's not about challenging gender, it's conforming to gender stereotypes. And, it is very damaging and regressive. The example you mentioned is a prime example of this, someone claiming to be the ideal woman by presenting themselves as a passive fuck toy. Women have spent generations trying to overcome this, and it makes me so angry to not only see this being presented as somehow enlightened, but also to see so many self-proclaimed feminist women endorsing it.

The thing is, it's as damaging to someone with dysphoria as it is to women. It makes them appear to be fetishists, but I don't think they are. The very people who claim to be fighting their corner are massively damaging their cause. I don't know why, maybe selfishness, but it is happening.

Thinking about it, it's a bit like having surrendered wives insisting, often with threats of violence, that they speak for feminists.

I saw this and thought it was appropriate

age

Yes, that's exactly it. Be what ever gender you like, but if you are pushing the idea that what you are presenting is representative of women, no fucking way.

Some transwomen's idea of a woman and the actual reality of a woman are completely and utterly different (and opposed). Which is why the term 'woman' should remain firmly as a biological description. Not a gendered role that becomes a legal cloak that you can don at will.

Some transwomen's idea of a woman and the actual reality of a woman are completely and utterly different (and opposed). Which is why the term 'woman' should remain firmly as a biological description. Not a gendered role that becomes a legal cloak that you can don at will.

That's a really good description of it.

Good thread, OP.

Yy Datun and I don't understand why tw can't accept that we're different and just move on?

ageingrunner

I think what transwomen want has got very little to do with women at all. People like Tumbletrans have gender dysphoria and find that ignoring their genitalia as much as possible helps to alleviate the problem. As there are only two types of genitalia, it naturally follows that presenting as a woman helps. If there was a third or fourth sex they might well choose one of those.

And in terms of the autogynephiles it's not about accepting that we are different. It's about women being the goal of a sexual obsession.

This is why I think the 'born in the wrong body' narrative is so ridiculous and damaging. There is little empathy for, or affinity with, women. There is no unification. There is no battling the same cause. In fact, for many of them, there is a distinct battle against women.

And I know people have told me on here that they know transwomen who are not like that. But you hear little from them. And it's not they who are changing the laws, or even want them changed.

For those who said it would never happen one Twitter user thinks otherwise: twitter.com/StopLesbophobia/status/836329343907418112

And those crimes will be recorded as committed by women, presumably.

Why would TAs want to be women when they clearly hate and despise women?

It's pretty clear really. They want to be women for some bizarre reason but they hate and despise women, so the only way they can be a woman is by changing or even erasing the meaning of the word 'woman' so 'woman' ceases to describe a specific biological entity. That enables them (the fake version) to claim ownership of the word 'woman' and its meaning.

But logically, then, they would have to hate and despise themselves wouldn't they if they were real women? I think that deep down they do and all their efforts are the way they rationalise their self-hatred - a belief that they are not the hated and despised version but the new improved version complete with penis and balls (often).

A psychiatrists' nightmare.

The irony is that they are doing so much damage to the very small percentage of people who have true body dysmorphia. Because the backlash that will assuredly come when society wakes up to the fact that it is being scammed by these TAs will also hurt those with genuine dysmorphia.

Yes, I can imagine they must have some serious psych issues. To be honest, the stupid unthinking virtue signallers who enable them to bully women make me angrier.

Perhaps they wish to negate women and replace us. By redefining the concept of 'female' and 'woman', they can erase our identity and replace it with their own. Once they occupy that place, they then 'own' the identity and are free to dictate and control what we are and who we are.

I think I have been reading too many accounts of MtT " journeys" : last night I had a dream that I was transformed from my usual rather practical
Short haired middle aged woman into a " girly girl", I then enjoyed swishing my long silky hair and preening in front of a mirror. I woke up feeling rather confused! ( derails thread...)

I think gender critical is perhaps the better term, transcriptional is too likely to be taken personally even if that is not the intention.

To me, it seems as though the gender they wish to change themselves into doesn't exist. It's fake and artificially constructed.

I'm a born female, but I don't follow fashion and I'm a bit of a tomboy (if that term is still permitted). I like both female and typically male interests and I don't believe in traditional gender roles. I would like to see equality between men and women.

The type of 'woman' that they seek to become appears to be modelled on very superficial characteristics and their idea of what a woman is. Human beings are far more complex than this and I believe that we're all a mix of typically male and female feelings and identity. Superficial characteristics are meaningless. The person comes first. They cannot feel comfortable with their identity as a human being if they need to take hormones, have surgery and step into an artificially constructed role in order to feel comfortable.

I prefer the term gender critical tbh. I feel gender is absolutely a social construct and harms women. It harms men also, but not to the same extent.

I personally would define transphobia as hating someone because they are trans. But it appears to have the meaning of...be even slightly critical of ANYTHING TAs fight for. I was called transphobic only yesterday as one of my friends was discussing transwomen in sports and I gave the view that they should compete against males or compete against each other but no way should they compete against born women. This opinion was absolutely disgraceful apparently..I was hurting transwomen by even saying it, and I may push them to suicide! By saying that sex matters in some areas of life. WTF indeed. Luckily this was in a pretty close friendship group so people were free to give [i]true[/i] opinions instead of the 'correct' one and I was backed up by 9 others(including a post op transwoman!). The issue of changing rooms and such was brought up and I was happy to discover that the majority opinion matched mine. This conversation ended with the 'trans ally' declaring all of us nasty transphobes (inslucing the trans woman who was with us...) and flouncing off. She hasn't spoken to any of us since, though I expect she will before long.

But this is just crazyness. ANY opinion that is not 'sex does not exist and there are literally no differences between males and females' is transphobic...

Perhaps I'm unusual on this thread but I prefer trans-critical to gender-critical.

I'm critical of the way trans has been erected as a huge umbrella catching within its shadow transsexuals, people having an intersex condition, people having gender dysphoria, young people uncertain of their sexuality, people with certain medical conditions, etc, as well as people deciding on their gender on a day-by-day basis and autogynephiles.

But trans-critical definitely has a PR problem and is prone to be misinterpreted as trans-phobic as we are continually seeing.

I prefer the term 'gender critical' personally. As does my 16 year old trans son. Both of us think gender is a load of bollocks, and his being trans is in no way related to stereotypes or personality. He's often picked on because 'how is it possible to be trans but not believe in gender?'

No way related to thread but Im seeing more and more 'transkids' and it pisses me off. Children before puberty cant really have sex dysphoria, and hence their definition of being trans is based on clothing and toy preferences. It invalidates the genuine trans people and what utter hell they've gone through. Do like this thread though, no one appears to be screaming transphobia.

Absolutely agreee Things

I think though, that until you have seen the pain that someone with genuine dysphoria has gone through, it's difficult to judge the difference between that and a small child who decides that the socially decided box they're expected to sit in doesn't fit them and they don't wish to conform to it. Not wanting to conform to arbitrary roles that don't suit individuals is being pathologised.

"This is why I think the 'born in the wrong body' narrative is so ridiculous and damaging. There is little empathy for, or affinity with, women."

Well some Transfolk obviously think that is outdated or according to this TW

"It's transphobic to assume that every trans person wants to "physically transition." I don't need to physcially transition. I have a female body and female genitalia. I am a woman, and women have female bodies. This isn't difficult to understand, yet you have so-called allies who think our bodies have to look just like a cis woman's to be considered a real woman. Fucking cis women."