Not all women

[phoolani]

Reading yet another feminism thread that didn't hit double figures replies before someone interjected with 'notallmen...' And the original post didn't even talk about all men, just about 'so many men...'
Have you ever seen an opposite example? Of men interjecting a 'notallwomen' in anything disparaging women as a whole?
I had a quick Google and came back with nothing.

Lol, YetAnothet, it's almost Pavlovian

It's certainly fucking GroundHoggian .... :(

Sorry but if you're making lots of negative comments, arguments and statements about men (whether right or wrong) then men are going to respond, sometimes critically. That is the nature of the internet and open discussion forums.

Go an set up a forum on any other divisive social or political issue and loads of people will come back at you. What do you expect?

If you don't want that I suggest that you collectively agree not to engage with any male or suspected male posters who are in any way critical of feminist tenets. Or set up a completely closed forum somewhere else that people can only be invited into once they've demonstrated themselves to be suitably feminist.

You're not being critical, you're getting in a huff and taking statements personally.

If the reporting of news stories about murdered families is "just journalistic convention", then perhaps that journalistic convention needs to change so as to be less fawning towards family annihilators?

JosefK, the OP is talking about women jumping in to say 'not all men ...' and asking if we've ever seen men jump in to say 'not all women ...'

Only ever heard 'some women' as in 'some women like watching porn/have no problem with lap dancing/are happy hookers.'

Add 'not all women are the murderee' to that list.

I'm not in a huff Assassinated at all, I assure you. Not a huffy person.

"Only ever heard 'some women' as in 'some women like watching porn/have no problem with lap dancing/are happy hookers.'

That might be the case. Yeah there are sexist men who do that. Not denying that.

Only ever heard 'some women' as in 'some women like watching porn/have no problem with lap dancing/are happy hookers.'

It seems that the only virtuous thing a woman can do, the one thing that will make her the example men like to refer to, is to lie down and let men walk all over her.

Then, she will be the praised exception. Well, perhaps not even praised. But brought up in conversation often.

My experience seems to be different to most here. I often here men jumping in to tell other men it's "not on" when they are pontificating about women.
Also, I see a lot of men on twitter who call themselves feminists and seem to spend a lot of time arguing with trolls and getting called social justice warriors for their troubles.
So, I "hear" plenty of men saying "not all women".

I have seen the occasional man telling other men that their sexism is shit.

But not in an "not all women" way. "Not all women" is always about "Not all women object to my sexist shit".

What I conclude from this is that the average, non-political man does not feel a need to defend the women he loves (if there are any) against sexist statements - the men who do side with women do so because they have read about feminism and know how to identify sexism.

It does not seem to be an intuitive response for most men.

Joseph, this is indeed the internet but you are posting in the forum Feminism Chat. Would you turn up on a Sikh Discussion group, or a Marxism Debate thread and start telling regular participants that you knew better than them about their beliefs and understanding? You'd get short shrift if you tried.

I've noticed that men far too often just don't respect feminism as a political movement and an academic subject. Instead think they can just butt into feminist debate, tell us we're doing it wrong and expect women to justify themselves and spend time answering their interminable questions.

This is a place where we discuss feminism. Most feminists don't much care what men think about it. Sure, there are plenty of feminist allies, but men don't direct feminist thought. You are entirely within your rights to disagree with feminist principles and interpretation. We are just as entitled to carry on regardless.

Fair do, that will be me I guess.

Didn't realise feminism restricted views. Uni kiddy politics wasnt like that but obviously what is allowed has now changed. My mistake.

Probably why I won't join any women only organisation or support any women only events. Separitism and hate spread the other way doesn't help and destroys all that was fought for.

Josefk - I applaud you.

YY to what Prawn says; also Joseph, given this is a feminism chat board, what is it that you hope to achieve here? Clearly not a greater understanding of what feminists think of the issue under discussion. No, you either seek to educate or to derail, otherwise why are you here?

I don't entirely agree that "most feminists don't much care what men think about [feminism]" . I care, I just don't think that men's views get to trump women's views, or that we should shut and listen to them telling us what we are doing wrong (special's third para above being a great example of that). I also don't care if what feminists say or propose upsets men or requires them to accept some difficult truths (such as the fact that men as a class oppress women as a class).

But then I believe that men can be feminists, not allies, so I know I hold a different view to many other posters on FWR

What the bloody hell is going on here tonight?

Trolls are trolling
They seem ok when the board is mainly trans threads but when other feminist stuff is posted they crop up with more or less subtle trolling
Infuriating

MRAs. They were out last night too

I think it was the ROK link.

Olennas I think men can be feminists but from numerous threads, particularly on Reddit, I know that mine is not a popular view. More than that, it's very much a minority view. I am also aware that many women have had terrible experiences with male violence, and haven't had positive experiences to balance that out.

I always have problems keeping my mouth zipped concerning NAMALT. My feminism is based on class analysis but my personal experience has been atypical. My DF has passionate feminist views. More than that. He says women are better people. In his view we should be in charge, men being more selfish and aggressive.

Unsurprisingly, my DBs also grew up pro feminist and I had the sense to marry a lovely man who became a SAHD while urging me on to start my own creative business. All these men love women's company while being loyal husbands.

I'm lucky. All - or nearly all - the men in my extended family like women. We all get on extremely well and none of has needed a divorce. My DPs, DBs and I have been married for 120+ years between us. So sometimes I find myself saying NAMALT, even though I know that it's silly.

It's not that I haven't had bad experiences. I've been raped twice, both times while travelling. This hasn't ruined my life as it does some women. I recovered well, largely because I was very clear that rape isn't sex and had my lovely male relatives to stand as a contrast.

Who on earth are you talking to special? Apart from yourself?

Prawn if I was taking part in a Marxism debate I certainly would be engaging in critical discussion with people. Although broadly on the left, I disagree with many views which come under that very broad umbrella. I wouldn't go on a Sikh forum because Sikhism does not concern me in any way and I would have absolutely nothing to say.

And anyway I am not opposed to feminism and am not sure what I have said that has given that impression. I have just diverged from others on certain points.

It seems like what many people want on here is not so much a discussion forum but a space in which everyone more or less agrees with one another. More of an online support group as it were.

Nothing wrong with that at all, but I would suggest it won't work here. These threads start with a question to which anyone with an email address can respond with a view. Inevitably there will be disagreements.

I feel a bingo card coming on.....

" but I would suggest it won't work here."

This board has been here a while. Think it's working ok. Perhaps I'll do a poll.

Well what is everyone complaining about then?

As I say, have a safe space, or have a discussion forum. A discussion forum will mean people disagreeing with you.