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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Can anyone suggest why girls at 6 change their view of girls' ability to be brilliant?

238 replies

Italiangreyhound · 28/01/2017 20:33

Can anyone suggest why girls at 6 change their view of girls' ability to be brilliant?

Just that?

What's the cause?

www.theguardian.com/education/2017/jan/26/girls-believe-brilliance-is-a-male-trait-research-into-gender-stereotypes-shows

OP posts:
WearingMidnight · 04/02/2017 13:53

Delurking because someone brought up that ridiculous monkey study. I heard about that a few years ago and looked into it. I'm on my phone and can't link right now but the details can be found pretty easily. They measured how long the monkeys made contact with the toys. I take "made contact" to mean touched. So because they say the boy monkeys touched a truck for a few seconds longer than the girl monkeys did, toy preferences are inate in humans.
I'm no scientist but that seems like a huge leap to me.

Atenco · 04/02/2017 14:03

Sorry, I've skim read the thread so far, but just wanted to say that, although the subject is very interesting and well-worth debating, I think the study referred to in the article is much too small and localised to be significant. Overall they studied 300 American children of whom it seems 96 were six-year-olds and not the same children as the five-year-olds they studied.

RebelRogue · 04/02/2017 14:09

Actually if you think about it,most school staff is female. So girls would be surrounded by at least 20 working females (ranging from positions of great power-HT to caretakers ,cleaning ladies etc) for at least 30 hours a week. There are very few women I know that are clothes,makeup and looks obsessed. None in mine or dd's close social circle.

Original poster
Italiangreyhound · 04/02/2017 15:45

Lass "You introduced the subject."

Not denying that at all, but AI was talking generally, the thread had moved on. But I don't think mass media I'd relevant to the age 6 thing

OP posts:
ErrolTheDragon · 04/02/2017 16:15

most school staff is female

Speculation....Maybe the kids in the study don't perceive primary teachers as being 'smart'? I've been told that in the US, public sector jobs tend to be viewed as lower status, not at all aspirational.

Morphene · 04/02/2017 16:39

whats relevant to kids aged 5/6 is the advertising aimed at kids aged 5/6. This includes "everyone wants to look their best for the ball" plastic castles, and "get the speed,be the best, beat the others" racing tracks for cars.

Guess which of the above shows exclusively girls and which shows exclusively boys......

Morphene · 04/02/2017 16:40

btw if anyone is up for a mass campaign against stereotyping in children's adverts then I am all up for that!

RebelRogue · 04/02/2017 17:10

Errol at my daughter's school except for 3 males,all the other staff are female. Head,deputy head, teachers,ta's,office staff,dinner ladies,pastoral care etc. So the majority of her role models are working females. This was in answer to the pp that said that girls are surrounded by looks obsessed female role models.

RebelRogue · 04/02/2017 17:15

Funnily enough i had a conversation about this with dd today. She told me x said boys do boy things and girls do girl things. I asked her what she thinks. She said she can do anything she likes and play with anything she likes,but x said that. I told her x is silly and by thinking that way he has less choices in what to wear and what to play with,so isn't she lucky she knows there's no such thing as boy things and girls things. She was happy with that,but insisted i have a chat with x and set him straight.
Sorry kid, I can't fix sexist parenting as much as I'd like to.

MeaganRain · 04/02/2017 19:22

When I was a child in the 80. The girls were always the smart ones in the class and that I witnessed that boys believed they were dumb boys and not meant to be smart because they were boys.

Miffer · 04/02/2017 19:41

Me too Meagan. I am now a 35 year old woman and witnessing yet another female prime minister. Fucking feminists.

HelenDenver · 04/02/2017 20:21

You are on FIRE tonight Meagan.

KateAdiesEarrings · 05/02/2017 04:43

And yet the boys still end up running the country and getting paid more. I wonder what would happen if they hadn't been "dumb boys'. Hmm
Although primary schools are mainly staffed by women, I wonder if 6-yr-olds view teachers more as caregivers than as women having careers (Only musing - no studies to back this up).
I also found the 'you can't climb in a skirt' jarred with my experience. I wasn't particularly a tomboy and I was rules obsessed but I have lots of memories of climbing trees in a skirt (both in and out of school). I didn't care about boys seeing my pants. And in fact I'm the parent that taught DS to climb trees.

Itisnoteasybeingdifferent · 05/02/2017 10:45

If I understand the OP correctly, she is asking why do girls think they can be brilliant until age 6? Thereafter they change their opinion of themselves.

This does of course beg a question, is there any evidence for this?

.....ducks and runs for safety.

HelenDenver · 05/02/2017 11:04

Well, the evidence is in the article linked in the OP.

Not sure I understand the question or why you'd need to run for cover?

ppeatfruit · 05/02/2017 11:44

KateAdies IMO the people who WANT a high powered , stressful life/job running the country or multi million businesses do have the opportunity nowadays. If a parent wants to work at home with the children (because it IS work ). Then IMO it should be accepted.

SarfEast1cated · 05/02/2017 12:40

I see a lot of girls aged from 7-9 (DD's friends) and they hold themselves to really high standards - can they skate really well, do gymnastics, look thin, look pretty, do cool stuff - but get very upset when they perceive they can't do things. Can't skate expertly the first time of trying? Waaaaillll I'm useless/fat/ugly/stupid, same with everything really. It's really sad and I personally don't know what to do about that. I can imagine that this level of self scrutiny and criticism would stop girls from believing that they were ever good enough, let alone be brilliant.

RebelRogue · 05/02/2017 13:18

this level of self scrutiny and criticism would stop girls from believing that they were ever good enough, let alone be brilliant.

But is it really self scrutiny and criticism or does it come from somewhere? Is it part of them or has it been developed due to the scrutiny and criticism of others?
Girls have a multitude of standards to live to...be pretty,be thin,look nice,stay clean,be well behaved,do well in school and that's before you add the extracurriculars. Can they really achieve all these standards without feeling they failed somehow or another?

ppeatfruit · 05/02/2017 13:53

I have said to my dcs and now to my GD that you just have to try again and again e,g, if you can't skip well to start with and you WANT to. Our gd has perfected her cartwheels with practice. She has confidence now. It's just a matter of repeating the mantra and praising the effort as well as the result Grin

Morphene · 06/02/2017 10:50

ahhh scrutiny....that will be social media driven.

I don't know if I would try skating if I thought a picture of me on my ass would be visible to all my mates the next day....

honestly, social media is creating a MH epidemic in our society.

ppeatfruit · 06/02/2017 11:00

I'm not sure that's the case Morphene All adolescents are unsure of themselves and always have been. If you're taught to deal with failure as just being part of life that can help. I reckon a lot of people are eating a load of rubbish now (perhaps more than ever? though I'm not sure). I reckon that that can lead to MH issues.

Though smoking is less prevalent now so that is a positive thing.

Morphene · 06/02/2017 12:12

Yes indeed adolescents have always been unsure of themselves. But they didn't have to go through that in the glare of public scrutiny. You could be bullied at school and that didn't follow you into your own home.

Adolescents haven't changed, but adolescent life really has, and MH problems are increasing out of control.

ppeatfruit · 06/02/2017 12:54

Yes It must very difficult to withstand the technological onslaught. I can and do ( but admit that it's not easy , and I'm oldish Grin there's so much that is tempting and involves the family) I do ignore everything except, emails, FB and here of course!

HardcoreLadyType · 06/02/2017 13:39

This is why I sent my DDs to a girls' primary school.

I remember taking DD1 to see a girls' secondary school, and a physics teacher there telling me about how great it is when the girls realised that they could be good at science. DD1 just looked really confused. All the people at her school that were good at science were girls. Why would she think girls couldn't be good at science?

SarfEast1cated · 06/02/2017 18:47

My dd and her friends aren't really on social media yet, so not sure if it's that, or if they are just so sure that the way they are isn't quite good enough.
I think the media has a role to play in this, but I can't really put my finger on why they are so hard on themselves.