Do you think men can be feminists?

[AVirginLitTheCandle]

This may sound like a stupid question but do you think men can be feminists?

I've always thought they can be but I perhaps some radical feminists will disagree with me.

Thanks for the feedback Lass. As you know I really care about what you think.

I'm really surprised you reckon men can be feminists when you disagree so vehemently with feminism yourself - it's odd that you would advocate so strongly for people's right to be something that you disagree with.

Absolutely lass

thats why i think these types of thread struggle

You can do 'feminist' things because they are the normal 'right' things to do and not be a feminist

You can do 'christian' things because they are the normal 'right' things to do and not be a christian

Well according to you I can't be even if I wanted to ;)

BertrandRussell - I don't need to make a move, Sparrowhawk has to change her post, she was the one asserting none of us were.

Neither lass or drm say they are feminists

Thats all sparrow said

"it's odd that you would advocate so strongly for people's right to be something that you disagree with."

That would be the essence of freedom and liberty.

The fact that you find that odd, speaks volumes.

Oh i see what you are saying hibert

It was the ' all' word

Apologies i missed that

She's perfectly entitled to do it of course Hilbert, it's just that typically people don't argue for and advocate for things they don't agree with.

Do you consider yourself to be a feminist Hilbert?

The essence of freedom and liberty is for non feminists to tell feminists what the attributes of a feminist are?

Er, no.

and no again.

I'm really surprised you reckon men can be feminists when you disagree so vehemently with feminism yourself - it's odd that you would advocate so strongly for people's right to be something that you disagree with

I don't don't see why, if it is important to them, and if they believe in the basic human decency aspects I set out, they should not call themselves " feminists" if they want to.

Although I personally feel that for example saying something like "As a feminist I believe the Nordic model is the way forward" is no more convincing than saying "I believe the Nordic model is the way forward...". If anything less so, it should be self evident to any decent person.

The essence of freedom and liberty is for non feminists to tell feminists what the attributes of a feminist are?

Not what I said.

Ironic you would get it wrong and then say "Er, no." That's rather rude, wouldn't you say?

"Do you consider yourself to be a feminist Hilbert?" - yes.

Ok...so you think feminism is pointless but you've argued for men to be feminists? So you're very keen for men to be able to call themselves something that you consider to make no difference? Odd.

"She's perfectly entitled to do it of course Hilbert, it's just that typically people don't argue for and advocate for things they don't agree with."

Indeed, that is something that you Sparrow find completely alien. You often don't even acknowledge what you don't agree with.

How do you engage with feminism Hilbert, what are your beliefs around it?

Apart from telling feminists how rude they are of course.

"So you're very keen for men to be able to call themselves something that you consider to make no difference? Odd."

Again, that is called freedom.

Lass respects the rights of others to believe in what they want, even when she thinks it's silly/pointless. I seriously question your morality if you find that odd. It does however explain your behavior on this board regarding people disagreeing with you.

Or...as someone who believes that there are issues affecting women that need to be addressed, then I think that "insert opinion / what change you would like to see" here.

If you believe there are issues that overwhelmingly affect women and that need to be addressed, does that make you a feminist?

I know some people on here don't like to be associated with that word - but I would bet some of them still believe there are issues that overwhelmingly affect women that need to be addressed. Does that make you a feminist?

hilbert

Does the label matter to you?

Do you try and live your life / influence other lives to help women overcome issues they face?

You're questioning my morality??? Are you for real

"BertrandRussell - I don't need to make a move, Sparrowhawk has to change her post, she was the one asserting none of us were."

How do you show yourself to be a feminist in your daily life then?

I'm struggling to see what you find so odd about it. Perhaps it will be simpler to say I disagree with your view that men can't be feminists - who are you to determine they can't? It's your opinion , but it's just an opinion.

My own view is that appending the qualifier "as a feminist " when setting out a case risks potentially weakening an argument. Take the case of abortion in NI.

I don't need to state I think that is wrong "because I am a feminist".

Right, ok Lass.

Do you wear a T-shirt?

"Apart from telling feminists how rude they are of course." - I am telling another human being they are rude. The fact that you happen to be a feminist is coincidental. But yet again you are playing the victim card, something you seem to be amazing at.

I consider myself a feminist because I am of the opinion that while in the vast majority of cases there is equality before the law between the sexes, this is not true for society. You yourself have made a very good point for example, that studies have shown that women tend to be ignored more than men when making a point in a discussion, yet men making the same point aren't. Or I believe that the so-called rape culture does exist and is a result of societies attitudes (in the same way white privilege does exist, so does male privilege). I chose these two examples because a) I think they are important and b) I have argued against non-feminists (or I suppose anti-feminists) who flat out refuse to accept them and c) they highlight that my belief is that while some aspects remain in terms of law( e.g. rape law), I think the main focus of feminism has to be around how to bring up children to see men and women more equal (e.g. why do women get talked over or ignored, because people have seen that happen all their lifes, and think it's normal, because maybe daddy did it to mummy, or men on TV do it, etc.).